Kalkwasser Questions

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#1
I am in the process of constructing an auto top off that I will run with an auto dosing system. Here is the plan I think, please tell me if there are any problems that you can think of. I want to run a 5g with kalk mixed into it to a auto doser that will drip approx 1g into my 75g over a period of 8 hours. I plan to set this on a timer to drip through the night when ph is lower. Can I mix 5g of kalk today and then add to this every 5 days? I don't have a sump and will be dripping it into my main tank. The 5g jug will have the out line positioned about 2 inches from the bottom to ensure that no sediment enters the doser or tank. My tank used approx 10 mg of calcium daily and about .25 mq/l of alkalinity. My ph is stable at 8.3 and calcium is at 380 alk is 3.5 meq/l

Will this work do you think?
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#2
I am in the process of constructing an auto top off that I will run with an auto dosing system <<you might want to keep these separate>>. Here is the plan I think, please tell me if there are any problems that you can think of. I want to run a 5g with kalk mixed into it to a auto doser that will drip approx 1g into my 75g over a period of 8 hours<<OK>>. I plan to set this on a timer to drip through the night when ph is lower<<How? Peri pump?>>. Can I mix 5g of kalk today and then add to this every 5 days?<<Better to remix. You know it reputedly absorbs CO2 from the air and ppts out as Ca CO3.>> I don't have a sump and will be dripping it into my main tank.<<OK>> The 5g jug will have the out line positioned about 2 inches from the bottom to ensure that no sediment enters the doser or tank<<OK>>. My tank used approx 10 mg of calcium daily and about .25 mq/l of alkalinity<<Watch that alk>>. My ph is stable at 8.3 and calcium is at 380 alk is 3.5 meq/l

I don't like to put kalk thro' pumps as the ppt of CaCO# tends to jam them quite quickly. I need to think about this. I use kalk, but as I think my usage is low (same as yours approx) I use a slurry method - mix up a smll amount daily and dump it in.
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#3
Thanks Wayne, but what is the slurry method? If that is easy to do I could just at the kalk that way and use the peristatic (I think that is what it is) pump as an auto top off only?????

Your advice is greatly appreciated as I am not quite sure about plumping etc.....not exactly my strong suit, but learning as I go. The pump I am using is an aqua dose......and pumps about a tablespoon every 15 seconds or so. It is adjustable but that seems to be the slowest that I would go as it seems to pump about a gallon over 8hrs this way. I had heard that kalk can
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#4
Well klak WILL clog the pipeline thro' a peri pump (which I think that is) but you should be able to replace it.
The slurry method works where there is a low demeand for corals. You need to knwo (as you do) your daily usage of calcium, work out how much kalk you need , mix it up and chuck it in , in one go, and into an area of high flow.
It works only for smallish amounts, but how much do you really need. If you saw how much some people chuck in, compared to what's in the tank, you'd realise most of it is just precipitating out somewhere (likely the sand bed)
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#5
I think I read somewhere to start with 1/16th of a teaspoon, that is barely anything.......I think I will try that to start and monitor my ph digitally and calcium. I think this is easier than adding to my make up water......
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#6
Well now you're well on the road to technoland. My only comment about this is that if you're growing SPS/LPS on a large scale then a calcium reactor is a smart way to go. If you're not, then you really are creating a very expensive rod to break your own back with. They require continual monitoring, and make sure you don't get your magnesium out of whack or your kH and pH will collapse. The pH monitors you refer to require a LOT of maintenance and are not cheap to maintain.
What do you think you're going to be doing to go thro' all the calcium.
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#7
okay now I am confused. My calcium level is 400 day 1 and 360 day 4 divided by 4 is 10? right? that is not a lot of calcium is it? The 1/16tsp of kalk mixed into a cup of ro water and dumped in daily maintains the ca level at least over the past couple of days without adversely affecting the ph. I haven't tested the magnesium level in a couple of weeks but it was at 1330 I had been supporting this through water changes? no? will using kalk affect the magnesium? I have my alk up to 4.5 meq/l but have had to buffer this to keep it there. I was hoping that the kalk would help out here too?
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#8
No you're not using a lot of Ca, so I would not go to a Ca reactor at this point as they are high maintenance, affect your ph, kH, Mg levels blah, blah, blah. Getting one is typically where all the chemistry fun and games, especally round pH start.
If you're adding small amounts of kalk then I am thinking water changes will keep you on track with Mg, plus once a week I use a commercial buffer rather than kalk to get those things back on track.

I would suggest you do some reading round this, maybe in Fossa and Nillsson or Delbeek and SPrung Vol 3, or online
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#10
Ooh, the other thing I thought of (sitting on the toilet) was re: the accuracy of test kits. There is a general trend amongst aquarists to regard these things as absolutely golden, reliable, and they most certainly are not. If these things came with error bars, they would be horrible!
There are a lot of factors at play here. Typically you start by removing 5 or 10 ml of tank water. Do this with a syringe, do not trust the measuring vials provided as rather strangely these are often not so accurate (I would have thought that hard to get wrong, but there you go ...). If you are doing an important test like this, and I think for you this is an important test, get a reliable test kit, redo the test 3 times now, and repeat it for a few weeks, 3 times each time. The reason for doing it over a few weeks is to reduce an error there, and the reason to redo the test is that if these things are say 5% accurate (and they're likely not that good) then your starting point 400 might be 380 or it might be 420, and your end point might be 340 or 380. So your real calcium use might be from 0 to 80. Now that's the extrmes, but you get the point.
It's a lot of testing, but you need to get your benchmarks down pat.

Assess where you think the calcium is going. I see you have a clam, what else? Many people shovel in mountains of Ca, and most of it is precipitated into their sand bed.
Anthony Calfo has written about the slurry method, but I cna't find this on RC anymore. Google for his current forum and see if the article is resident there tho' beware chemistry is not always his strongest point. There are ususally useful articles by Randy Holmes Farley on reefcentral, and some in the online mag there that are quite good. And of course you should own Delbeek and Sprung vol3 for all the information on this, and numerous other topics that you will soon start to get into.

FWIW I am a moderate calcium use , and I use slurried kalk very early in the morning. I have some SPS, some LPS, and a lot of coralline
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#11
Well I actually have two clams, a 5 inch crocea and a 3 inch derasa. Both are doing well (at least so far) I have a few sps corals mostly just frags at this point, m.digitata, scroll, a.formosa and a few lps torch, frogspawn, trumpet, lobophyllia, and a small toadstool and some xenia. Along of course with a mushrooms and polyps. All seem to be doing well, no sign of deteriation etc. Do you have a recommendation on a reliable test kit......I have been using american pharmacuticals.....

I have read the Calfo slurry method (through reef central) and anything else I could find onit through wet web media. I have also read some stuff by Randy Holmes Farley....The Delbeek & Sprung I haven't read but will go hunting for it.....vol 3? chemistry is not my strong point and what I learned in highschool was many many many moons ago.......now if we are talking finance....that is another matter entirely......
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#12
Well everybody always reocmmends salifert. You can always mail, post for Randy FH or Senor Calfo and see what they recommend for kits... Ca is kind of important, and also kind of fiddly, so it might be one of those wortth spending money (whereas pH, alk are very easy to get right so get a cheapo kit there because they're equally accurate!).
Delbeek and Sprung vol3 really is essential material for most any kind of serious hobbyist. Worth getting a copy.
My honest advice is keep an eye on ca and try to stick to kalk for as long as possible - Ca eractors are the superior way to get Ca into a system, but man theyare complex, maintenance hungry and can really throw your system into whack if abused. FWIW I use about a 1/4 tsp a day
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#13
cool. thanks Wayne. I was wanting something that Icould put in the auto top off when I go away for a weekend.....and I didn't want to rely on a house sitter to attend to anything if possible. Less hands less problems if you know what I mean.
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#14
Well in an ideal world Ca reactors would be the ideal method to leave alone for a weekend or a week, and not need to worry about Ca supplementation, but in reality they are one of the devices most likely to crash and trash a system while you're out on your travels (autotopups and closed loop leaks being the others). They can leak,stop working, too much/little CO2 gives no Ca or a pH crash.....
I wouldn't matter a second about leaving Ca alone for a weekend, and I still travel a bit, and I don't much worry when I'm away for a week either. I do tend to do a large water cahnge before and after.
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#15
Actually that was in the plan.....a largish 30% before I leave and one when I come back. I will leave the kid in charge of top offs and actually as I am only going for 3 or 4 days I even think feeding will not be an issue, I will have him feed flake once while we are gone.....that should hold them......

I just want to make sure that temps don't go out of whack and that the water level stays up there. oh and not on my floor..........everything else is on timers....lights etc.