Keeping cyprichromis leptosoma

[TaffyFish]

I have 4 cyps, 1m and 3f, in a 4ft tank and I've come to realise that 4ft is almost too small to keep this species successfully.
Sure they seem to be happy enough and they are breeding away but the problem is the size of the male's territory.
In the wild cyps will shoal together but the dominant males will establish 3 dimensional territories in the open water. Females then enter these territories when they are ready to breed with their selected male. These open water territories approximate to the area of a 4ft tank, hence in captivity the dominant male might believe that the reason these females are in his territory is because they wish to breed with him. Once in condition the male is in permanent breeding mode and chases the females relentlessly attempting to get one of the 3 females to breed. How confusing it must be for him that they try to hide. How difficult for the females who cannot get away from his ardour and return to the shoal.
Subordinate males are not tolerated at all, my second male jumped from the tank quite early on.

Once holding eggs the females would normally leave the breeding areas to shoal with other holding females. In captivity it is therefore wise to remove the holding females to a quieter tank until they've spat out their young and recovered their condition especially if they were unable to feed properly.

So 4ft is only just about a bare minimum for cyprichromis, 8ft might be better!

 

[Managuense]

yeah man!

cyps are great fish in a large tank like that!

ive seen pictures of 200g tanks FULL of cyprichromis (jumbo lep i think) and it was sweet!

you couldnt take your eyes off of it.

if you get any pics post em!
M

 

[TaffyFish]

Wow! Sadly, I can only dream of having a 200g one day. That would be an utterly compelling sight. I am planning to step up from the 55g to a 350 litre corner tank soon though.

For the 4ft tank, I think the best thing is to increase the number of females even further, to reduce the stress and nipped tail fins. More males would be nicest as they're so colourful but they'll just fight over the territory (as mine did).

 

[Verse914]

I have 5 leptosoma Utinta Flourescents about 2 1/2" in size. They just started breeding for me and are doing great. Theyre in a 55gallon.
Taffyfish
I think your running into problems because you have a very small group. If you had maybe 8 or more, they might do better as that will spread the aggression between many fish, instead of just 2 or 3. I have around 10 fry that im growing out that Ill add to the group.
Heres a couple pics of them. Theyre still small and still getting some color...

male 1

male 2

1 of 3 young females

 

[TaffyFish]

Verse, you're one helluva good photographer! Mine are "kekese" variants and the male is bluer in body than your two, a bright orange tail and yellow tints in the fins. The females are a quite drab brown (they are over a black substrate.)

I agree with you about adding fish to spread the aggression, as I said above. Fortunately I still have 9 fry growing on in other tank which will progress once they're too big for the calvus. Two of their siblings, just over 1" long and a little deformed, were moved in on the weekend to "test the water" - they lasted about 90 seconds!!

Your males must be competing for the females, showing off colours and fins to each other? You have a very similar sized group to mine - have you had the same kind of problems?

One of the problems I encountered was that the male continued to court the females even when they were already holding. This is because the male would view any female in his territory as a willing partner. In the wild, or with more space, the female would withdraw to shoal with other holding females. In a 4 ft tank, there's no chance of this so an entire mouthful has been lost because the female was sick of the harassment and fought back!

Of course, with every female you remove, there's one less to spread the ardour around. Maybe 6 females for each male and 48" of water for each breeding male would be good ratios.

Another thing to consider with cyps is to provide hiding places for the females. Mine love caves (if there's no other resident) and hiding in the vallis, though the male smokes them out eventually. I did not think of this before as they are considered an open-water species, experience tells me they are intelligent and curious fish who love exploring caves.

 

[Verse914]

thanks Taffy. I think mine will color up much more as they grow. Theyre still very small and just started breeding a couple months ago.
But all the fry I have came when they were in a 3 footer(36x12x24 i believe) They have bred without any problems in that tank. I just recently moved them to the 55gallon where I think theyll color up much more. Theyve only been in there for a week. Since Ive put them in there, two females are now holding. But the male does chase the females around even if they are holding, but not to the point that would make them spit.

 

[TaffyFish]

Hey Verse, I wasn't suggesting your fish were less colourful, just that mine are a different variant. Your fish look great.

What does your second male do while the first male is chasing the girls? Does the dominant male keep him pinned into a corner during the spawning?

I hope that you managed to witness the spawning itself.

 

[UKSouth]

I have had similar problems with Leptosoma, those males really do make a nuisance of themselves. Have tried various combinations in a 180 litre and am now down to 1m 4F of which two are currently holding.

The reason I only keep one male as if I add anymore they spend there lives pinned into a corner, not fair on them so have finally found a male which is a little easier going on the females. The two holding females sit quietly in the rocks and are left alone most of the time.

Not sure if any fry will survive as they are housed with 4 Ocellatus and 4 Juli Ornatus. First time they have bred and I managed to see one of the spawnings, quite spectacular.

I agree about the tank size, thinking of saving up for a Rio 400 but at a cost of over £500 may have to wait a while.

cheers

 

[TaffyFish]

yes, South, the spawning is a compelling sight.

based on my experience I would move the holding females to another tank if you have one, even a 10g hospital tank, otherwise you risk the females holding too long for fear of spitting them for food.

If you don't have a spare tank, you'll need a tight lid to prevent the female from jumping out in her attempt to find a secure place to spit. Wait for 7 days after you see hatched fry in the buccal cavity then strip the female by gently holding her out of the water above a fry trap. As soon as she's out she'll spit them, no need to force her mouth open or anything.

best wishes, South with your brood! Good to share experiences.
(You should be able to find a second hand tank for less than that.)

 

[UKSouth]

Wouldn't this upset the female, I know they are not the easiest fish to catch. One has been holding for two and a half weeks, the other one and a half.

I have an empty 10 gallon already set up, I was wondering what to do with it.

I would like to say that Tanganyikan cichlids are great fish, so interesting to watch, almost comical. Wish I had discovered them sooner.

 

[TaffyFish]

yeah, me too, I only started with Tangs in March! fortunately they have so much character the rest of the family like them too, though not as much as the family goldfish!

Honestly the female will enjoy the peace and quiet, keep her there for a day or two after spitting so she'll recover her condition. Have they managed to feed whilst holding? Remember to transport the female in water between the tanks, if you lift her out she'll spit. The one that's gone 2.5 weeks has probably got hatched fry by now?

I see you have Ocellatus too! I'm a big fan - have you a mix of f and m?

 

[TaffyFish]

I have found the secret to catching cyps is patience, back them slowly into a corner and then hold the net steady, eventually the cyp will swim into the net. If you chase it you'll get frustrated, they're so damn quick.

As a last resort, and this works with Calvus too, creep down in the middle of the night with a torch and lift her up gently while she's sleeping!

 

[Verse914]

Originally posted by TaffyFish
Hey Verse, I wasn't suggesting your fish were less colourful, just that mine are a different variant. Your fish look great.

What does your second male do while the first male is chasing the girls? Does the dominant male keep him pinned into a corner during the spawning?

I hope that you managed to witness the spawning itself.

Taffy I have yet to see them spawn. I hear its quite a site, but I havent been lucky enough to catch them yet. Hopefully soon. i dont know how the two males are during spawning, but the smaller male seems to be more dominant. He is usually the one that is always flashing for the females.

 

[UKSouth]

I thought I had male and female Ocellatus but there has been no sign of any breeding, I have one dominant male which seems to want to own every shell in the tank, anything he doesn't want he buries. The other 3 just swim mid-water around the rocks. If they venture down they are chased back up. Same with the Julies, one dominant fish owns all the caves. Thats the only thing I found a little frustrating with these fish. If you take out one dominant fish it is immediately replaced by another and you get the same scenario.

 

[TaffyFish]

I have the same problem with my ocellatus. I had three which were supposed to be 1m and 2f but in fact are clearly 3m so I've split them up. I then bought another 4 but they're too small to add with the existing so have put them into the juvenile tank to grow on for a couple of months. Over Christmas I plan to put all 7 together in the 20 gallon in the hope that a pair forms, they do seem to be robust enough to look after themselves when they are shell-less!!

It's great watching the dominant male hold all the shells and routinely un-bury then re-bury them seemingly on a whim!

As for julies the trick seems to be to buy 6 juveniles and wait for the pair to form, then remove the other 4 or however many survive to stresses! That worked for me and the julies were the first to breed in my community tank. I thought I wouldn't have many fry surviving with calvus and synos in there but the julies are fantastic parents and I had nearly 30 young before I sold the male with 20+ of his offspring, because he was by then not just defending his cave but bullying everything else in the tank!

It's hard to judge the balance in Tanganyikan tanks, when to remove the bully and when to remove the bullied. They wouldn't be half so interesting if their behaviour was simple though.

 

[TaffyFish]

for UKSouth:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2360117551&category=301

 

[UKSouth]

Tempting, had a go at catching one of the holding females last night but she was far too awake so I let her be.

My Julies are behaving a little strange at the moment. To of the smaller fish keep charging over to the dominant fish and doing a strange darting type dance in front of it.

Is this breeding behaviour?

If it is I may well need a bigger tank sooner than I thought.

 

[TaffyFish]

we all need bigger tanks!

yes, it does sound like breeding behaviour, maybe the dominant one is female, the darting about I always associate with males, both julies and leleupi would do this.

 

[TaffyFish]

I think I might have made a useful discovery with regard to the male cyp's behaviour.

Weekend before last I completely tore down my 55g to redecorate with new substrate and rockwork. This gave me the chance to separate the m+f cyps for a while. I kept the m out for a week and reintroduced him to the 3 f's since when he has been noticeably calmer - still displaying but not chasing as aggressively as he was. This could be because he has moved into what he would regard as the f's territory rather than me moving the f's back into his "lek" (Konings' word).

Quite how much the redecoration has played in this remains to be seen but in future, after one or more holding females has been removed and has spat out the fry, I will remove the male before returning the f's to the 55g. This will also give the f's time to recover some condition before the m returns in a week or so.

This kind of makes sense doesn't it?

 

[UKSouth]

I had a lot of problems with my male chasing the females after they had released their fry, in fact he just wouldn't leave them be so I had to remove them for their own safety. At the moment he shares the tank with one other large female whom he has always been a little wary of. in fact I would say she has the upper hand.

I know they need to be kept in groups but they both seem perfectly happy and the tank is in peace for the first time in a long time so not sure if I wand to put them back. Taffyfish I agree with your earlier post, you really need a large tank to keep these fish successfully. Although they breed in a smaller tank the females take a little to much aggression for my liking.

By the way I have 18 fry in a seperate tank which are growing fast, certainly cute little critters!