Lighting a 75 gallon?

[dss2004]

Okay well I am about to move and I will have to tear down my 46 gallon planted tank. It hurts, because I finally got it where I like everything and all the plants are growing well, and the fish are thriving. But I digress.

I have decided to upgrade to a 75 gallon tank. Here is the deal. It is going to be placed in the living area as a decoration piece, so it can't look, as my fiance refers, "like a science project." That means matching stand and canopy. I have never used a canopy, and can only imagine the headaches that come with them, but the negotiations finished with me getting a new tank, and the fiance getting the canopy.

Well I am going planted again, no questions about it, but I am having trouble figuring out how to light the thing. Most of PC fixtures I have found for 48" aquariums are around 220-260 watts, a little more than I need but all have seperate switchs so I would only have all the lights on for 4-6 hours a day. I would like to stick around the 2.5 range for the most part. Anyway I have read that you can't use a lot of these lights with canopies, sp? because fo the immense heat these fixtures produce. The ones I like come with fans but still say don't put into fixed hoods or canopies.

I guess my question here is how do I go about upgrading the lights for a planted 75 gallon tank? Keep in mind a canopy is not optional but required. Any/All suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I am at a total loss. Sooner the better because I saw a deal for a 260w 48" Odyssea fixture on Ebay. Anyway as usual thanks in advance for any help. *SUNSMILE*

 

[Avalon]

Well, since I have a 75g, I'd like to tell you all about it! I'm using a Coralife fixture (4x65w). That should be more than enough light, BUT, the reflectors suck, and I suspect that they suck on every other unit out there (I've seen a few in person). The AH supply retrofit kits would be more appropriate since thier reflectors are far superior, and you can position them how you like in a canopy. However, I still like open top tanks, and canopies are a PITA. I had to come up with this little technique I use to lift up my 60" canopy on my 100g to service my tank. Yeah, try stretching your arms around a 5 foot beast and lift it up without being afraid of dropping it, destroying your lighting and tank altogether! PITA!

I've been researching lighting like you wouldn't believe for my 75g here lately. The Coralife fixture does grow plants well, but oh so slowly, and the light is just barely enough to get my hairgrass to carpet (if you can call it that...months later). Forget about glosso or HC. It would be much better suited for a 55g tank. Like I previously mentioned, I suspect that every other fixture would be the same. They will work, but probably not to your desire. However, consider it if you are looking to keep growth very moderate/slow.

My only alternatives are T5's and metal halides. I personally think that fixtures for both can be found that are very cool and contemporary, which is also what I'm shooting for. But of course, they will cost you--about $500 on up. $550 + shipping will get you 2 new HQI pendants from Coralife. I've got a link I can pass along for some of the coolest T5 fixtures you've ever seen, but they will cost you probably around $700 including bulbs. OUCH! Try justifying that to the fiancee! However, truly nice stuff comes at a cost!

Other than that, you could try to retrofit something in an Oceanic canopy (the better looking canopies I've seen), but from what I've observed, it may prove to be difficult since they are made of plastic (wth?). The halide pendants will flood the room with light unless you tilt them slightly, and that may require additional crap running to & from that the lady probably wouldn't like. I'm thinking of putting up my 75g in my future "office," so the flooding of light from metal halides wouldn't bother the living area. One other consideration is that the halides only need to be run 6-8 hours per day, so they could be turned off by TV time.

Hmmm...I'm still thinking too...any feedback you give could help me as well, as I think we're both looking for the same thing here!

 

[NoDeltaH2O]

If you consider yourself to be even moderately handy, why not build your won canopy from scratch. By overdriving normal output flourescents, you could easily get the right amount of light in there, and it would NOT cost several hundred dollars. You could finish it to match the stand and the fiance would be happy.

 

[dss2004]

The two guys I was hoping to respond!

Avalon your story about the canopy is why I still trying to get her to relinquish the canopy demand. The open top is so nice, I just walk by the tank remove anything from the top of the water, feed the fish, fertilize the plants, and go about my merry way. When I change the water all I have to do is tilt the lights up on the their stands. Easy as pie. I actually have a coralife fixture now on my 46 gal. It has done a well enough job for me. I think it is probably because of the tank size. I have gotten so hairgrass to carpet but like you, it has taken time. I don't really want to get into the metal halides and such because of the cost. I for one know first hand that good things cost money but I really just don't have the money to invest 500-700 dollars in lights right now. I have managed enough over the past few months to save so money for the tank and new filtration. I am going to use the same fish and same plants, just with a new layout.

I am thinking a huge piece of driftwood, probably a stump, and using mostly swords vals, and probably some hairgrass and ferns and anubias for the wood, and maybe just maybe a lotus plant. I want to keep the species down and make the tank look more uniform with the focus on the driftwood. I seem to have developed a great liking for the driftwood laden tanks I have seen on plantedtank.net. I would love to hear yall's feedback on this idea.

Anyway back to the lights. Would it be possible to put a 260w odyssea fixture in a hood, or would the heat be too much? Is there anyway to vent the canopy to allow for this, obviously in conjunction with the lights built in fans? I surely don't want to start a fire. And yes extra "crap" would definitely be out. I want this bad boy to look as sleek as possible. I am using cannisters nothing will be showing. I will continue to look around but I must say the deal that I saw for the 260w fixture on ebay is really tough to pass up. Keep in touch I need to get this figured out pronto, as I am moving in about a month and will need to start ordering stuff. I will also keep you informed of anything I find, but I feel I will be of little help since I am just entering into the large tank world.

NODH20 I have though about making my own hood. I think I might actually do it but I am not the greatest handy man. My father is retired and works well so I will probably enlist his help as he is much better at handy crafts than I. I am a little leary of ODNO, not to say it is bad, but DIY projects fail miserably in my hands. I had a bad accident with the co2 and could only imagine what I might do when wires and electricity is involved. Thanks for the reply and keep the ideas coming, I really appreciate you help.

Thanks again, and keep the info coming!!

 

[Lotus]

If you get an Oddyssea fixture with a fan, you would really only need to have a vent for air to get out. The Oddyssea aren't as well made as the Coralife, but they work OK. Ours hasn't blown up yet

You could go the retrofit route, and get some fans hooked up inside the hood.

I got a fixture from this site that's a Coralife lookalike, and was at a decent price. Some of the stuff you can order with freshwater 6500K bulbs, which is nice. http://www.petmeister.com/cat25_1.htm

 

[Orion]

Venting isn't really a problem even if you moderatly handy at DIY. At one point I was running hallogens on my tank, and before fans were installed the temp during the day was rising 10-13 degrees. The setup I made was simple, and out of sight.

I took six fans from old computer power supplies, and hung three on one side of the tank to pull air in under the canopy, and the other three on the opposite side, pulling air out from underneith the canopy. To wire them to power I found 2 power transformers that was <12V, and 1.5 amps which was perfect to run three fans off of. Three in, three out, and I pluged them into the same strip as the lights so they would only run when the lights were on.

Granted, not as fancy as some set ups, but it worked beutifully. And another plus, all of it was conceiled behind the canopy. But for maximum effecency, it would be best to have the fans on the ends of the canopy. This would require cutting a place for them. But I ran 4 60w hallogens with my setup, and the six fans kept everything oh so cool.

HTH

 

[TurbineSurgeon]

Several of the people I know use the ahsupply DIY retrofits (even a couple of the female persuasion). You can mount them to the inside top of the canopy and the open sections in the back of the canopy will provide enough ventilation.

 

[Avalon]

I think I've found some affordable T-5 fixtures...let me do some more reaserching and I'll post a link or two!

 

[dss2004]

TURBINE - Great to see you around again!!! Hope work hasn't been killing you!

Thanks for all the great posts. I have been desperately trying to get the ole' lady to acquiesce about the hood, but all negotiations have broke down.

Sad to hear about the Odyssea. My folks bought a Jebo fixture for their tank and it doesn't look nearly as nice as the coralifes. I like the idea of the ahsupply lights, Turbine. So what you are saying is that I can mount the reflectors and the lights straight to the canopy? Would the heat produced not be a problem if the canopy is made of wood?

Orion I like the idea of the computer fans, I have heard a lot of good things about the set-up you are talking about and I can kind of invision what you had set-up.

Avalon I am not familiar with T-5's. How do they compare to the PC fixtures? Let me know what you find.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Avalon]

Alright, here's the scoop on the T-5's. T stands for "tube" while 5 stands for the diameter of the bulb in 1/8's of an inch (they are 5/8" diameter). Same for all other's like T-8 & T-12. T-5's produce about 3-4 times the intensity of a regular T-12 while burning far cooler (no fans required), far longer (about 2 years instead of 6 months for T-12's), and far more efficiently (about 95% efficient). They were originally designed for aquarium lighting.

Now the cool thing about them is the reflectors that are desinged for them. Since the bulb is small and round, reflectivity is increased substantially, and there is no gap like there would be with putting 2 power compacts together end to end.

I've been checking out these Sunlight Supply TEK-5 fixtures. They are available at Drs. Foster & Smith, but are way overpriced. Upon further research of their design, each fixture has a reflector for each individual bulb! Here's the kicker: their reflector material is almost twice as good as the AHsupply reflectors! They did a test and stainless steel reflectors are only slightly better than white painted reflectors! Their reflectors provide a 95% reflectivity rating, and have a nine-way bend, focusing the light downward for better penetration. No reflector can reflect more than 100% of light...obviously.

Now the costs. The cheapest I've seen on the TEK-5 fixtures are $249 for their nice fixture (available in black or silver), and if you want the cheap housing (silver only, everything else is the same), $189. This is for a 48" 4-bulb unit. The unit is 11" wide, while all 4 bulbs will cover 8", so it will provide very good coverage of a 75g tank. My Coralife 4x65w is about 6.5" wide, and light coverage is my main problem. They have a 2 year warranty. Bulbs are separate. GE's cost about $15 each, while German made stuff will run around $25 each, but they have an incredible color rendering index of 95! Wow! This means colors will render very accurately to the human eye. This is the best CRI I've seen of any bulb on the market, far exceeding power compacts. I do not know the CRI of a GE bulb. CRI is like comparing computer paper. It's all white, but if you compare a brightness of 86 to 94, there's a substantial difference.

The TEK-5 fixture does not include mounting hardware, but you can either purchase legs (kind of ugly) or a nifty hanging kit that allows vertical movement of the fixture (it's basically two thin wires with tiny ends). I've even seen an automated mounting kit that will move the fixture back & forth over your tank! That's a little overkill, but nifty if you are into that stuff.

Anyway, I think this is the best value by FAR that I've seen, and I've look over MH, PC, and now the T-5's. You might have to become a used car salesman (or an investments broker, take your pick) for a day to swing it, but I think you'll be much happier. The way I see it, if you're going to do something, you may as well do it right the first time. Don't forget the trade value for plants...you'll never have to pay for fish food and ferts again!

 

[TurbineSurgeon]

Yes, you could attach the reflectors straight to the inside of the hood using adhesive and/or screws (I like the belt and suspenders approach, so I would advocate using both). The DIY kits have long leads so the ballasts can all be remotely mounted in the stand. Since the canopies have a fairly big opening in the back, they will let a lot of the heat out. If it does get too hot, a small fan could be installed to help cool it.

I have heard that it is better to use fans to push (dry) air in rather than to pull (humid) air out to limit the corrosive effects of moisture. This was advised in saltwater setups, but it also makes sense for freshwater environments as well.

One of the DFWAPC (see link in Avalon's sig ) members from Keller is using T5HOs over his 100 gallon setup with phenomenal results. You should really consider joining us sometime. The level of knowledge is staggering, not to mention the plants that are traded or given away between members (that alone would pay for a membership).

I was looking into High Output T5s a while ago to upgrade my 75 gallon, but was really put off by the prices they are asking for them. I even looked into some commercial fixtures that I could modify for my use. They are still expensive, and I didn't like the idea of a $200 experiment (that's just for the fixture, not including bulbs). The bulbs were also a sticky issue. There just aren't many to choose from at this time, and they are all pretty expensive. The "cheaper alternative" GE 9235 bulbs have a low CRI and put out a pinkish light. Not something I want, but some people really like them.

Something else that my research yielded was that just about every manufacturer uses the same reflector material (Miro-4 or Miro-5), including Sunlight Supply and AHSuppply. Coincidentally, everybody claims that their reflector is superior to everybody else's.

Finally, in a fit of desperation with numbers and dollar signs racing through my head, I stopped in to a small lighting supply place in Dallas (oddly enough, it's called Lighting Supply) and told the guy what I had (4 40 watt Philips Alta 6500K T12s) and what I wanted (more full spectrum light over a planted 75 gallon tank). We talked about power compacts, high output T5s, cost, high output T12s, CRI, color spectra, cost, lumen output, heat, and cost. He flipped through numerous catalogs as we talked and he finally went back into the warehouse and produced 4 T10 tubes that would work in my existing fixture. I was skeptical, but he explained that they were full spectrum, 5000K tubes that put out roughly 1000 lumens more than just about any other bulb on the market. He told me to take the bulbs home and try them out. If I liked them, I was to come back and pay him. If I didn't, I could bring them back. If I didn't come back, don't come back.

I brought the tubes home and swapped them out in my fixture and was stunned by their increased brightness (picking up over 1000 lumens per tube is like adding more than one additional tube). Almost right away, I noticed increased pearling. I had to turn up my CO2 to keep the levels up where they were before (proof that more photosynthesis was occuring). I found the website for the manufacturer, and found some specifications for the tubes (30,000 hour average life, CRI = 88, 3700 lumens). Still unsure about the 5000K temperature, I emailed the company and promptly received a spectral chart The following week, I went back and paid the $21 for the tubes.

 

[Avalon]

Hmmm...T-10's. So you're saying these guys run in a regular T-12 fixture (ballast, endcaps)? That might be an idea if I could find a nice fixture to house them in. Now if I had a "fish room/basement," then I wouldn't care what the fixture looked like. Do you have a pic of your tank just to get an idea of their brightness & color? How do the plants in the lower part of the tank fare?

I used 4 T-12's to light my old 100g tank (see link in sig). They worked well for lower light tanks. Larger tanks need less light anyway, but penetration is the hard part. Consequently, you actually end up with more light than you really need when getting a light that can penetrate that depth well enough to grow glosso or similar light demanding foreground. I think if I would have upgraded the T-12 ballasts they would have performed even better and kept the tenellus a little shorter.

Canopies can be nice, particularly to hide equipment, but they can be inconvenient as well. If you go with a plastic canopy, these might be a little more manageable, but my wooden canopy is kind of a burden. By the time I purchased the canopy & retrofit kits, I simply could have purchased a fixture instead. But with a canopy, you have more options like changing the lighting later down the line and easily selling the "innards" you had in there. Shipping canopies & large fixtures are no fun. I'm thinking about replacing the AHsupply retros with something else, if I keep the 100g...

 

[TurbineSurgeon]

The pins have the same spacing as T12s, but since they are 1/4 inch smaller in diameter, end caps could be problematic. I have a modified flush-mount ceiling fixture suspended from the ceiling that has regular "twist" sockets. The ballasts are the stock ones that came with it.

As you have stated on numerous threads in the past, it's not the wattage that matters, but rather the light intensity. Having bulbs that put out 3700 lumens, rather than the more common 2200 to 2600 lumen range that is typical of T12s really seems to help. I recently (less than 2 weeks ago) ripped out virtually everything from the tank and started over, so the tank looks rather sparse at the moment. Before I cleared it out, I had some Hydrocotyle leucocephala that was flowering like crazy. That never happened under the old lights.

Provided that things start to fill in over the next couple of weeks, I will post a pic.

 

[dss2004]

Hey guys sorry it took so long to get back, I could never get onto the website. Hey TS I want to meet with you guys so let me know next time yall meet.

So are you using just the standard shop light fixtures in the 75 gallon with the new T-10's? If not what kind of fixture are you using? If it is a shoplight fixture did you use or make reflectors? Sorry so many questions but I like the idea of 160 watts versus 260 or 130. I like staying around 2 wpg. I have found that with co2 and 2 wpg I can grow what I want and get some nice results, without trimming the tank everyday. Anyway thanks in advance for any help.

Post a pic TS, I have never see you post a pic! I am very intrigued.

Avalon I have given up the fight. It looks like I will be wrestling with a canopy. This is also the reason I want to stay around 2 wpg, I don't want to wrestle with the canopy on a daily basis.