Livebearers with goldfish
- Thread starter MattyB
- Start date
I'm assuming that the goldfish you have are true goldfish (aka carp) and not simply yellow tropical fish?
Goldfish are a -cold- water species that prefer temps around 66oF-68oF and do need lots of tank space (45 gallons is heaven to your four at this time) because they require on average 2 gallons of water per every one inch of fish. This is because they are adapted to cold water, which carries more oxygen so they're used to living in O2 saturated environments, and that they are pretty gluttonous eaters that need larger dilution volume for their waste products. Single tailed species (Subunkin, Comets, Koi, etc) like a lot of space to zip around in as well. Most single tail speices can grow to be 24" or larger, most of your fantail, fatboddied speices (moors, orandas, Ryunkin etc) grow 8"-10", or about the size of a softball. Goldfish are known to suffocate in extreamly warm water that does not hold as much O2 that they need even if it is fine for tropicals. Most goldfish breeders/experts would reccomend only 2 full grown fantails per 55 gallons and would never say keep koi in a fishtank.
Livebearers on the other hand, require warmer, tropical temperatures around 76oF to 78oF. They also like a more brackish (slightly salty) environment (especially mollies, which I have kept at full oceanic salinities with greater sucess then I've had with them in freshwater), and they may grow to a moderate 2".
Due to the totally opposite water chemistry requirements of goldfish and livebearers, one should not keep it together. Has it been done before, yes, mostly by people who are not taking care of either speices as optimally as they ought to. Your goldfish will outgrow your livebearers and probably bully them. They may also outcompete the livebearers for food.
45 gallons is a nice size tank. But your fish will be one or the other. Goldfish or topicals.
~~Colesea
Goldfish are a -cold- water species that prefer temps around 66oF-68oF and do need lots of tank space (45 gallons is heaven to your four at this time) because they require on average 2 gallons of water per every one inch of fish. This is because they are adapted to cold water, which carries more oxygen so they're used to living in O2 saturated environments, and that they are pretty gluttonous eaters that need larger dilution volume for their waste products. Single tailed species (Subunkin, Comets, Koi, etc) like a lot of space to zip around in as well. Most single tail speices can grow to be 24" or larger, most of your fantail, fatboddied speices (moors, orandas, Ryunkin etc) grow 8"-10", or about the size of a softball. Goldfish are known to suffocate in extreamly warm water that does not hold as much O2 that they need even if it is fine for tropicals. Most goldfish breeders/experts would reccomend only 2 full grown fantails per 55 gallons and would never say keep koi in a fishtank.
Livebearers on the other hand, require warmer, tropical temperatures around 76oF to 78oF. They also like a more brackish (slightly salty) environment (especially mollies, which I have kept at full oceanic salinities with greater sucess then I've had with them in freshwater), and they may grow to a moderate 2".
Due to the totally opposite water chemistry requirements of goldfish and livebearers, one should not keep it together. Has it been done before, yes, mostly by people who are not taking care of either speices as optimally as they ought to. Your goldfish will outgrow your livebearers and probably bully them. They may also outcompete the livebearers for food.
45 gallons is a nice size tank. But your fish will be one or the other. Goldfish or topicals.
~~Colesea
Colesea,
thanks for the input, very valuable !! I have been doing a lot of reading on the web, both on discussion boards and web pages. I should probably go and get myself a book or two on fish keeping. Tank temp at the moment is about 22-23 centegrade. Might seem a bit warm but either my thermometer is on the blink, majorly, or that's just what the water supply is at. In Australia btw. No heater.
As I was looking at getting some other fish to hang with the goldfish (common), checked out the fish comparison chart (can't remember the author - gary somebody??), and saw that corydoras have a similar statistics (letter codes).
Problem is : have read that goldfish aren't really supposed to be raised with other species.
Is there anything that will happily (mutually) coexist with my goldfish? Have noticed that they will scavenge and swim at all levels, but especially enjoy (?) sucking on the gravel - oh, and uprooting plants
tia
Matt
thanks for the input, very valuable !! I have been doing a lot of reading on the web, both on discussion boards and web pages. I should probably go and get myself a book or two on fish keeping. Tank temp at the moment is about 22-23 centegrade. Might seem a bit warm but either my thermometer is on the blink, majorly, or that's just what the water supply is at. In Australia btw. No heater.
As I was looking at getting some other fish to hang with the goldfish (common), checked out the fish comparison chart (can't remember the author - gary somebody??), and saw that corydoras have a similar statistics (letter codes).
Problem is : have read that goldfish aren't really supposed to be raised with other species.
Is there anything that will happily (mutually) coexist with my goldfish? Have noticed that they will scavenge and swim at all levels, but especially enjoy (?) sucking on the gravel - oh, and uprooting plants
tia
Matt
Yup. I tried planting Edola with my goldfish and they just pulled it right up. That's the thing with goldfish, they love rooting around the bottom. So it is important to have a gravel size that is too big for them to swallow. I finally had to replace all my gravel to large pea stone because I got tired of pulling pebbles out of my blue fantail's throat. Most professionals won't even keep gravel with their goldfish...
but I digress..
Well, there aren't any tropical fish you will be able to keep with goldfish. I know there are coldwater species of fish out there (mostly the ones I know are native North American fish) but that may be like mixing a wild tiger with a domestic kitty cat. Most other coldwater species can be aggressive and turn your goldfish into food.
White Cloud Mountain Minnows are a pretty harmless coldwater fish that are very pretty and don't grow much more than 1". A school of them might go with the goldfish now, but the goldfish might eat the white clouds when they get bigger. Large koi and common goldfish will become a bit more carnivorous as they get bigger even though they're primarilly herbivores, they'll opertunistically eat smaller fishies.
I currently have two blue channel cats with my goldfish. Genus species is -Ictalurus punctatus-. They're native to North American rivers and are a coldwater catfish. Very pretty, I have the silver kind, but there are albino as well. The only downside to these cats are they are twice as glutonous as the goldfish and they'll eventualy grow to about 3' in length. Hopefully I'll have a pond by that time<G>.
Most goldfish will do okay at the temps you have. If you want to lower them farther on really hot days, take the hood off and put an aerator in the tank. Evaporation is the best next thing to a chiller to keeping a tank cool.
The tank might look a bit empty now, but trust me, with good feeding you will have three huge fish within the year. My orginal three fantails are the size of jumbo eggs and I've only had them two years.
~~Colesea
but I digress..
Well, there aren't any tropical fish you will be able to keep with goldfish. I know there are coldwater species of fish out there (mostly the ones I know are native North American fish) but that may be like mixing a wild tiger with a domestic kitty cat. Most other coldwater species can be aggressive and turn your goldfish into food.
White Cloud Mountain Minnows are a pretty harmless coldwater fish that are very pretty and don't grow much more than 1". A school of them might go with the goldfish now, but the goldfish might eat the white clouds when they get bigger. Large koi and common goldfish will become a bit more carnivorous as they get bigger even though they're primarilly herbivores, they'll opertunistically eat smaller fishies.
I currently have two blue channel cats with my goldfish. Genus species is -Ictalurus punctatus-. They're native to North American rivers and are a coldwater catfish. Very pretty, I have the silver kind, but there are albino as well. The only downside to these cats are they are twice as glutonous as the goldfish and they'll eventualy grow to about 3' in length. Hopefully I'll have a pond by that time<G>.
Most goldfish will do okay at the temps you have. If you want to lower them farther on really hot days, take the hood off and put an aerator in the tank. Evaporation is the best next thing to a chiller to keeping a tank cool.
The tank might look a bit empty now, but trust me, with good feeding you will have three huge fish within the year. My orginal three fantails are the size of jumbo eggs and I've only had them two years.
~~Colesea
Colsea,
thanks for more great info ! Hmm, about the goldfish getting all high and mighty and eating other fish; I will now have a vacant 5 gal that I could convert to a tropical live bearer tank, or more appropriately, a supermarket for fish food. Well, that'll be for the future any way. A LOT more experience will be needed and knowledge before I attempt that.
Anyway, thanks for all the info - I'm really looking forward to many more years to come of (hopefully) successful and rewarding fish keeping.
Matt
thanks for more great info ! Hmm, about the goldfish getting all high and mighty and eating other fish; I will now have a vacant 5 gal that I could convert to a tropical live bearer tank, or more appropriately, a supermarket for fish food. Well, that'll be for the future any way. A LOT more experience will be needed and knowledge before I attempt that.
Anyway, thanks for all the info - I'm really looking forward to many more years to come of (hopefully) successful and rewarding fish keeping.
Matt