Long Time Listener...1st Time Caller

[Stykman]

Hello everyone, I'm new to myfishtank.net Forums, but I've had Fresh and Saltwater for years. I just recently got back into the hobby with my son, who is 8. We cycled a 55 gallon tank, and stocked it over the last few weeks and it's in his bedroom. The fish are doing quite well.

I found my way here because now that my son has gotten me back into this fun hobby, I am trying to figure out what to do with my 125 Gal Tank. I considered doing a Saltwater Tank, I've done it before, and I remember it was a little bit more work, but not terrible. I had to give all the livestock away when we moved, and I just never started it back up again. But I think I'm leaning toward doing another Freshwater tank.

Since I've been out of the hobby for about 5-6 years, I was wondering if I could get some Opinions & I had some questions:

1 - Since I am leaning toward Freshwater, what kinds of AquaScaping would you suggest? Is there such thing as Freshwater Live Rock? What kinds of Rocks should I use? In a 125 Gal Tank, I'll have a LOT of Space.

2 - I would like to have Live Plants, what are the requirements for Bed material? Can an underground filter be used with live plants? What kind of fish would "feed" on the plants, but Not Devistate them?

3 - Would a Protien Skimmer be good to use in a Freshwater Tank?

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Kissyboots]

First of all, welcome! This is a great place for info!!!

Hm. What can you do with that 125g? Well, one option would be to give it to me...hehe. Jk

Those questions seem too advanced for me but here are some tips:

ishar I believe knows plenty about aquascaping.
Check out the "looking for a mentor" thread in the lounge. That shows who knows the most about what. Very useful. Live plants are awesome but I don't have an underground filter so I can't comment on that.

So, that's all I know. Definitely hang around for more opinions. The more the better!

Anyway, welcome and hope you have fun here!

 

[iapetus]

Yeah, Stykman! Welcome to the Tank! Always good to have new people around!

Lessee ... Kissyboots is right about there being people around here who know far more (speaking for myself here). But, I'll throw in my $0.02.

I've never heard of freshwater live rock. In fact, I'm not quite sure what live rock is; I always assumed that it was coral.

Most of us eschew underground filters; you'll get a lot more negative feedback on using those than positive.

I'm using Eco-Complete in my 29G planted tank. It's still cycling, so I can't speak much to the results, but a lot of people here seem to be using that, too.

As far as which fish would feed on the plants, I think you're best off turning the question the other way 'round. Which fish do you want? Then look at what plants you can keep. Also think about which fish won't uproot them. I think that African cichllids are bad to plants in their tanks. I've also heard this about goldfish and crayfish. I'm not sure which fish nibble on plants but don't ruin them. I think I've heard of situations where that was the case, though.

I've never heard of anyone using a protein skimmer in a freshwater tank. Geez! You really are a saltwater vet, eh?

 

[Stykman]

LOL @ iapetus, yea, The last tank I did was Saltwater, so all that is so "fresh" in my mind...pun not intended.

Kissy, thanks for the suggestion of the Lounge.

 

[MOsborne05]

I think the first thing to do is decide which fish you want to keep, and then decorate the tank around them. If you want mbuna, then you would use mainly rocks as a hardscape. If you want South American fish like angels and tetras, they like it heavily planted with some driftwood. Browse through your local fish stores and create a list of the fish that you like the most, then we can help you with a stocking plan.

If you decide to go planted, you will need to decide if you want to do a low-tech setup, or a high-tech set-up with c02. Just remember that high-tech setups can be expensive because you will have to upgrade the lighting.

 

[punkrockfish]

-no such thing as live rock for fresh
-for plants you can get an aquatic soil or gravel (you can do sand, but i find it harder to grow plants in)
-don't use an under gravel filter, especially with plants. the roots will get all tangled up in there.

already been said, but figure out what fish you want first, and that will guide you in how to set up your tank.

 

[dogdoc]

I'm a lousy aquascaper. But I do have some know-how in how to grow weeds.

First thing to decide is how "high tech" and how "planted" you want your tank. This can go along with what you want to keep in there for fish.

You can do a "low tech" tank with lighting anywhere from 1-2 watts per gallon that will grow some easy and hardy plants without doing much else.

Or you can dive right in to a 3+ wpg tank with pressurized CO2, nutrient rich plant substrate, fertilization. This will grow just about whatever you want, but is more of an investment in both time and $$$.

There is no such thing as "freshwater live rock". But you can use a variety of different types of rock to get the look you want. You just have to make sure that it is not going to mess with your water chemistry (hardness etc.)

If you kept a reef setup, you may already have plenty of light, but you may need to change bulbs to get into the "plant friendly" spectrum. (Generally 6-10,000 Kelvin)

 

[Kissyboots]

Just some info on what I have that has worked for me:

I have gravel, I find it easy to clean.
I've got cory's as my bottomfeeders. Many people have and love these guys. (I am also currently breeding them!)
Swordtails are cool too. (I bred them too but that didn't work so well.)
I find tetras to be boring. That's probably the biggest mistake I made. Yeah, they are schooling fish but they don't do much...
Bettas are nice but they aren't very active. There's plenty of people here who LOVE bettas though. Hehe!
Oto's are awesome; they actually eat my algae.
I don't recommend a chinese algae eater. They get large, he didn't eat my algae but rather attacked my male swordtail (picture of that on my website below)
Ghost shrimp are cool and eat whatever leftover's there are. (also had fry but that didn't work either)

So, I think that's it. Like stated above, look at what fish you like and then figure out if they work well together. Petco's website (I think) has an awesome compatibility chart.

Anyway, that's my wall of text...

(A list of my fish and where they are is on my website btw)

 

[jediinthedark]

Like what MO said, different fish do better in different types of aquascaping. If you're going to go planted then you will want to avoid the African Cichlid fish, and some others. That still leaves a huge amount to choose from.
Personally I'm a fan of plants.
To grow most plants in an aquarium you'll need good florescent lighting. You may already have the lighting strip from your salt setup, but you'll probably need to swap out the bulbs for plant friendly ones.
How powerful your lighting is will in part determine what kind of plants you can grow.

There is no such thing in Fresh Water as Live Rock, but plants are probably the closest thing to it. They will absorb much of the nitrate in a tank, but unless you have a very light stock of fish you'll still have to do routine water changes.
As far as a substrate goes I would recommend Eco-Complete, Flourite, or the Aquariumplants.com stuff (AquariumPlants.com's own: Freshwater Plant Substrate.
Any of that will provide nutrients for the plants. Be aware that I've read where some plants do not grow well in the Flourite. Not sure why.

As far as filters go, I would avoid undergravel filters. Plant roots will clog them, they don't work well, and it simply wont keep up with the demands of a 125g.
Instead I'd look into a cannister filter. An Ehiem or Fluval perhaps.
Is your 125 plumbed for a sump by chance?

 

[jediinthedark]

Also... what shape is your 125g? long, tall, bow-front? All of that will help with an aquascape.
And Kissy is right about some tetras. Many of them can be boring. A school of Cardinals are beautiful, but not active. They will provide color, but not movement. Movement can come from other fish though... Add a school of Rummy Nose Tetras and you'll have 1 tetra school which is really pretty, one one school which is really active.

 

[ishar]

1 - Since I am leaning toward Freshwater, what kinds of AquaScaping would you suggest? Is there such thing as Freshwater Live Rock? What kinds of Rocks should I use? In a 125 Gal Tank, I'll have a LOT of Space.

>> Well to start, I am quite flattered by your comment Kissyboots- thank you very much . About freshwater live rock, I think I have read a thread earlier about people taking live rock and drying it out thoroughly and using it. It is sort of an expensive way to put rocks in an aquarium but you could do it I believe (try searching this forum for that thread- I know it exists). You don't have to have rocks at all unless you are going for a cichlid tank. If you want them though feel free. Generally for a cichlid tank people use flat, slate-like rocks as they stack up easily and are not dangerous in terms of falling over too easily. If you are doing a planted tank (my favorite ) then you might want to consider larger, rounder rocks for a more natural feel. In a 125G you could get a few large rocks and place them around, then have some driftwood in there as well, then plant around those. It would look very natural done right . It is easier to discuss this once you have decided on your fish type, hardscape (rocks, wood, etc) and what types of plants you want. Feel free to PM me at any time for any thoughts on aquascaping the tank and choosing plants and such. I have a great many links bookmarked for galleries and information and other forums, so ask away .

2 - I would like to have Live Plants, what are the requirements for Bed material? Can an underground filter be used with live plants? What kind of fish would "feed" on the plants, but Not Devistate them?

>> Well the bed material, called substrate, depends on how planted you want your tank, how much money you want/are willing to spend, and what types of plants you want. Since you are starting from scratch my advice would be to do it right the first time. You want about 2-4" of substrate in your tank, and I would use ecocomplete or flourite as the bottom layer (ecocomplete tends to be cheaper with similar results) and then on top you might want a fine grained gravel to help hold the roots of the plants down. I think this would be an effective yet simple substrate at a lowish start-up cost. There are many ways to do a substrate and many materials you could add. However these get complicated, so to start you may want to use this method as it will make your plants thrive with minimal work to you.

An undergravel filter (aka UGF) generally is avoided for tanks, especially one as large as yours. In small tanks like up to 29G they can do a decent job but they are still not very ideal as they do not give a very good filtration of the tank. In a planted tank the problems grow as roots tend to grow into the filter and clog it up. For a tank this size (a 125G) you might want to consider a canister filtration system. This would probably be the most effective type of filtration for this tank size- however some hang-on-back filters (HOB) can be quite effective as well. Cylinders are, however, better I believe. However, a thought is crossing my mind- if you have experience with saltwater tanks then you likely have experience with a sump system. If you liked that form of filtration and still have the materials and ability to do that, I would say go for it. It is a great form of filtration if done correctly.

I am not sure of many fish that would just nibble on plants but not eat them totally. Maybe if you have a herbivorous fish that was small and had many plants you wouldn't notice a lot of damage, but in general if you want your plants to thrive I would advise staying away from herbivorous fish.

3 - Would a Protien Skimmer be good to use in a Freshwater Tank?

>>To be honest I do not know what these are or how they work. If it is what I am guessing it could be, and just sucks water and detritus off of the surface of the water then it might be a good idea, as such a large tank with plants might have a lot of detritus with leaves falling off and whatnot, so it might not hurt to have it.

 

[Kissyboots]

Haha! Ishar the know-it-all. Nice post!

 

[iapetus]

OK, I was going to submit a long post in response to Kissyboots'. Instead, I'll just submit this one point in defense of the characids: I think a school of tetras has their place, particularly if you have the room for them. I think they make a nice "background" fish against which to display your "showcase" fish. I'm looking at getting a small school of rummynose tetra for my 29G; I think they'll look nice with my swordtails.

 

[Stykman]

Wow, you guys are GREAT!! Gave me a lot to think about, and I should have given more information at the start too, so here goes:

First off, the tank I have size is : 72" W x 23" H x 18" D As you can see, 6 feet across...I have a TON of space to do some things with.

I had Cichlids in this SAME tank in my old house. It broke my heart to give away those fish. I had a Convict, named "Manson"...he was bigger than my hand (I'm 37 and 6'3"...my hand is bigger than average), and he probably weighed about 2-3 lbs. But he was Brutal, moved about 25 lbs of gravel by himself everyday. I won't be getting any of those kinds of fish this time around.

I am going to be selecting fish that go in a "Classic Community Tank". A couple types that live in schools, and a couple types that don't. A few Plecos, Tetras, Swordfish, Mollies, and other "docile" types...ALL those fish will be on my radar, maybe Ghost Shimp and/or Crayfish. And I've always been a BIG Fan of Breeding. That is a realm I haven't traveled too, but I do have a 20 Gal Tank, and some "extra equipment" . I haven't done really any research on all these types, and compatibility, but I will be starting that in the next few days.

As far as the equipment I have, a lot of it is all left over from my Salt System. I have a Wet/Dry Sump Filter, Protein Skimmer, Powerheads, Cannister Filter, and a Really Good set of Lights. I can swap out the Bulbs, as I know this new set up won't require what I have for the Salt Tank.

So far, here's what I got from my original post:

- No such thing as Freshwater Live Rock. Ok, Got it...lol...A "necessity" from my Salt Days.

- ishar, you mentioned, I don't need rocks, but I would like to have some. And the Driftwood too. No Cichlids. My "Vision" is a Lush Plant life, Fish Filled Paradise, with Rocks and Wood...then again...Isn't that ALL our Visions? I guess reserching types of Rocks I should be doing when I research the fish?

- No UGFs. I'm not a UGF Pusher...but I do usually use it to suppliment filtration. My 55 Gal I just set up has a UGF AND a Cannister Filter. Basically just gives more water flow to the tank.

- Substrate - ecocomplete? I assume Google this for a source?

- Protien Skimmer, yea, it basically removes excess Proteins, and floating debris from a Salt Tank. It's a MUST for that. I don't think it will hurt a Salt tank, but I'll leave it in the box for now.

Again, THANK YOU ALL, you have been SUPER Helpful in getting me to think and consider about a lot more things.

 

[ishar]

Well if you want to get into breeding and plants, I would suggest angelfish. Fairly easy to breed from what I have seen. and they love plants. You could get quite a few breeding pairs in a 120G tank . That would be really a beautiful tank idea IMO. Livebearers will breed without you even doign anything, but IMO they are not a very exciting fish to breed- you don't have to do anything, but with egg layers you have to check for eggs and remove them and feed the fry etc etc. If you want docile community types a sort of Amazon themed tank would work- angelfish to breed and then maybe some neon tetras or something for some colourful dither fish. My two cents .

Ecocomplete can generally be found in your local fish store (LFS), same as flourite. However google should give you some sources as well as our sponsors (click the banner ad at the top of the forum page ).

 

[Kissyboots]

Yay! Breeding. If you want to breed cories, that's what I'm doing right now, check out "cory spawning habits" in the "bottomfeeder discussion." Fun, fun, fun! Also, I'm having problems with "floating cories" right now and don't know what to do about it. That's in "update on cory fry" also in the "bottomfeeder discussion." If you know anything, I'd appreciate the help!

 

[Stykman]

Kissy, I'd help if I could, but I don't know much about corys

ishar, do I need to go with 100% 3" deep of Ecocomplete? Or can I use some gravel mixed in with that?

 

[brian1973]

Nothing I can say except..welcome to the tank

 

[ishar]

Um no you don't need to go 3" deep of pure ecocomplete. I would suggest going maybe 2" with 1" on top of a fine gravel. You could also just mix it all in together right from the start rather than layer it. The plants won't notice much of a difference . But be warned- once you mix gravels, consider them permanently mixed.

 

[dogdoc]

Well, you can ditch the protein skimmer. Won't do you any good in a planted tank.

You may need to get rid of the wet/dry sump as well. If your envisioning the high light/lush planted tank you will need a pressurized CO2 system (canister,regulator, reactor(s) etc.) Problem with a wet/dry filter is that is allows a lot of outgassing of the CO2. And I'm pretty sure your going to have enough fun getting good CO2 levels in a tank that size without fighting that. I know that they can be used, but you may need to make some adjustments to/for it.