Low GH and KH, high PH... what should I do?

[Trumpee]

I have just set up a new tank and am ready to start cycling it but I'm experiencing a water chemistry challenge. I have well water with a commercial grade softener for my house. Testing the GH, KH, and Ph here are the results:

Water after passing through softener:
GH <= 1 degree/17.9 ppm
KH <= 1 degree/17.9 ppm
Ph = 7.9 – 8.0

Water before passing through softener:
GH <= 7 degree/125.3 ppm
KH <= 1 degree/17.9 ppm
Ph = 7.9 – 8.0

I've been using a neutral regulator from SeaChem to try and stabilize the Ph at 7.0 but after several doses over 5 days, it’s come down only a few points, seeming to resist the change. I understand this Ph change resistance is usually due to a high KH providing that stability. However, my KH is measuring extremely low. I'm hoping someone might be able to help me make sense of this. I would prefer not to have to mess with Ph constantly (cost and time) rather provide a stable environment without chemicals (healthier for the fish). Thinking ahead as well, when I do water changes, If I can’t get the new water Ph down immediately to equal that of the Ph in the tank, I’m afraid the water addition will increase the tank Ph too much, too quickly and be harmful to the fish.

I’m planning to build a community tank 7.9 - 8.0 for a general community tank does sound a bit high from everything I have read.

Questions:
If the KH is so low, why would the Ph be so resistant to change?

Lastly, what recommendations do you have? Get the Ph down and KH up? If so, how? And how would I get the Ph down quickly with water changes before adding to the tank? Or, perhaps get away from the community tank idea and build a tank that does better with higher Ph water?

Thanks.

 

[alter40]

I know that with my tank when I first started my cycle my pH was up around 8.5 but that quickly came down while I cycled my tank. It is currently sitting around 7.4 after a week of cycling and after a 25% water change so I would guess that your pH would come down some for you.

 

[d3sc3n7]

Mine have done the same thing. Ph is off the charts when you first fill the tank up...once the tank establishes itself...it will drop quite a bit.

 

[punkrockfish]

more importantly you shouldn't even worry about the Ph. messing with the Ph can be more dangerous to the fish, and they should adjust just fine to whatever Ph you have. african cichlids like a high Ph, so if you are really concerned you could go with them. However, I wouldn't bother with the Ph, not nearly as big a deal as it is made out to be (like to make you buy Ph buffers).

 

[alter40]

I agree. From what I understand as long as your pH stays consistent then you will be ok. You don't want to try manually adjusting the pH because then it will fluctuate and be harmful to the fish.

 

[cchase85]

I agree with what has been said above.

In addition, don't worry too much about GH and KH, just make sure they aren't fluctuating (like the pH).

 

[brian1973]

Hope you dont mind me adding to this question. If your petstore has a PH level of say 7.2 (which is what one petsmart here maintains in there tanks) and you introduce fish from that into a PH of 7.9 will this put them into shock? How would you properly acclimate to such a wide range of PH level? I have read that you shouldnt adjust PH by more than .1 every 24hrsis this correct? Thanks

 

[Lotus]

I think most water softeners work by changing calcium ions for sodium ions. This will probably mess with the pH adjuster you're using, but I'm not good enough at chemistry to tell you why.

I would highly recommend using the unsoftened water for your fish. Hopefully, you have a faucet that allows you to do this. Most fish don't mind moderately hard water and a pH in the range that naturally comes from your well. Unless you have heavy metals in the well water, it shouldn't be a problem for the fish.

Another thing to note is that your pH can change as it outgasses. Retest your pH after it has sat out for 24 hours to make sure you're seeing the true pH of the water.

 

[Trumpee]

Thanks all for your help and quick responses. This was great.

I do like the question of adding fish from a store that has say 7.2 PH in their tanks and acclimatingthe fish safely to my tank at 7.9 Any comments?

-Dave

 

[alter40]

I think that it might just add to the shock of moving the fish. It will already be stressed and shocked some from the move so it probably just does it a little bit more. I think if the pH changes for the fish that much it just kind of shocks them, what is bad is when your pH is always changing. Thats what you don't want to do.

 

[cchase85]

Moving a fish from 7.9 to 7.2 constitutes a drastic change in the water chemistry. pH is logarithmic and thus, water at a pH of 8.0 is 10 times more alkaline than water at 7.0.

At the very least, you should be drip acclimating your new additions for at least an hour. If, even with this, they seem to be very stressed out, you might want to consider more measures.

I've never personally had issues with pH mis-matches, the water at any of the places I have purchased fish is usually very close to my water.

 

[TabMorte]

My water's more acidic then what they keep at Big Al's where I get my fish and so what I do is get the hospital tank to the same PH as the pet store (which I can do before I get the fish since I know what Big Al's keeps their fish at) and intro the fish to that tank which I slowly adjust to match my standard conditions so that by the time they're done quarentine they're all settled into the same conditions as the main tank.

For the most part I buy hardy types of fish so this I usually can do in about 2 days at most (adujusting them from a 7.2 to 6.7) but a more delicate fish I'd probably take more time with.

 

[Trumpee]

Thanks

Thanks all. Great advice.

 

[Lotus]

I always drip acclimate my fish. I know the store I use most often keeps some of its fish in RO water (low pH) and some in tapwater (higher pH). Drip acclimating also helps with differences in other parameters. I used to get a few "dead the next day" fish before I started acclimating, and now have none.