My New Angelfish

AngelfishRock · Apr 24, 2004

My New Angelfish is now staying right below the water level surface between floating plants I have. My previous angelfish has been picking on it- could this be due to stress? or other factors? ocassionally it will move until the previous angelfish goes after it. My previous angelfish seems so moody. One minute it is fine with the new angelfish.. the next its darting after it and trying to bite it. Sometimes they swim so close youd swear they were a pair or something. Idk this is all so confusing. I have no idea the gender of my angelfish either because neither of them are at that spawning time.They are relatively the same size. My previous angel will always go after the side of my new angel..not necessarily just the fins. I notice right before she is about to attack she spreads her pectoral fins out a bit and curls them under. My new fish doesnt seem to care when it goes after it..it will move away alittle bit it wont try and fight back. Sometimes they get in fast chases around the tank until the one chasing (my previous angel) stops chasing the new one. The previous angel will sometimes go right up to the new angel and stare at it and other times it will just go in for a bite at the side. They both enjoy swimming in the bubble filter thing I have put in which sometimes takes the mind of the previous angel off of attacking the new one. People have told me to put in a divider but that decreases each of their tank space in half and I dont know if I want to do that. I might just be better off taking it back. If you have any idea whats going on- please let me know. I need all the help I can get.
Thanks.

P.S.- Ive tried re-arranging the tank- it didnt work.

TurbineSurgeon · Apr 26, 2004

I was about to start a thread pretty similar to this one, but now I figure I'll just follow the one already started. This is the first time I have ever kept any cichlids, with the exception of a pair of rams many years ago. Now I have 6 wild-caught Altums. One of them is a bully. He doesn't seem to be causing the others any physical harm, but he chases them almost constantly. I could probably put him in a separate "living arrangement" for a while and see if the aggression continues with the remaining 5. Maybe then re-introduce him? Take him back? Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, they are about 4" long in a 58 gallon with a couple of sword plants & some Brazilian Pennywort.

Lotus · Apr 26, 2004

I'm no expert on angels, but we have two (we had more, but we haven't been lucky with angels), which at first we thought didn't really like eachother. Next thing we know, they were laying eggs. They spawn every two weeks, although other fish keep eating their eggs.

I think the best thing to do is keep an eye on the agression. If it is getting out of hand, you might have to separate them. I think they need to establish dominance, but they shouldn't be ripping eachother to pieces.

TurbineSurgeon · Apr 26, 2004

At least in my instance, there doen't seem to be any nipping going on (those Altums have got some serious finnage). They have only been in there since Saturday afternoon, so I'll keep an eye on them.

AngelfishRock · Apr 27, 2004

for my angels there is a little nipping that goes on..and I notice some of my new angels fins look like they have bites out of them. But sometimes they enjoy swimming together and following each other around. But for the most part my new angel hides. The only solutions I can think of are a divider and slowly introduce them OR get a dither fish. Any suggestions on those?

TurbineSurgeon · May 1, 2004

hmmm..... it's been awful quiet around here...

It's been a week, and the aggresor is still being an a**hole, but not as bad. No visible injuries to the others

How are your's doing AngelfishRock?

equinom · May 1, 2004

Guys -take a look at the post I entered regarding the angels in the breeding forum. It may answer a few questions.

BTW: I have 4 angels - all from the same store, same tank, bought at the same time - and they don't show any agression towards each other.

wayne · May 3, 2004

I tihnk you're going to have to live with it. With a group of 6 you will get a picking order, and they can be nasty. Read all the notes on discus group dynamics because it's exactly the same.
As a side I have not found mated pairs to be peaceful to each other and know of at least 2 females that have killed multiple partners (I own one of them).
Turbine surgeon - brave of you to start with altums - are they 'real' or 'peruvian'. How big? What conditions are you keeping them in?

AngelfishRock · May 3, 2004

mine are doing better now. They dont seem to fight at all anymore (knock on wood). But now one of my angelfish shakes and jumps alot. People tell me its because of alot of ammonia in the tank but I dont seem to be getting ammonia readings. Could it be shimmy? I changed about a 3rd of the tanks water tonight- hopefully that will help? I purchased a 46 gallon tank. Once it is cycled and ready im hoping they will get better. They had the cutest little baby angelfish at the pet store and I want to buy them so bad but I dont want my previous bigger angelfish to pick on them if they are going to be in the same tank. I have thought of a divider but dislike the idea of dividers. I guess ill just have to wait

Thanks for all of your help- I hope your fish are getting better turbine surgeon!!!

TurbineSurgeon · May 3, 2004

Wayne:

Thanks for stopping by

There pretty much seems to be one dominant fish. Judging by the more defined and numerous tendrils on his ventral and caudal fins, I am assuming it to be a little older than the rest.

They are all about 4 inches in length (6-7 inches tall). They are in a 58 gallon tank that is moderately planted with a couple of pretty big amazon swords, some Valisnaria spiralis, and Hydrocotyle leucocephala.

They are true "Wild caught" Altums. My understanding is that they hail from the Orinoco river system in Venezuela, but I didn't check their passports.

The water conditions are:

pH - 6.0 - 6.2 (need a better low range test)
NH3 - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0
dKH - .5 - 1.0
Temp. - 80 F
I am filtering through a small amount of peat and supplementing CO2. Other tank inhabitants include 6 Corydoras sterbai, 2 rubber lip pl*cos, 4 Otocinclus sp., and 1 white spot bristlenose. I'll try and post some pictures later in the week.

wayne · May 3, 2004

They sound nice! I've never kept altums. They sound the real deal - the 'peruvium altums' are more like tall scalares. Good luck with them. Are you going to try to get the pH down?
You should do some web trawls - there's a lot of info floating around about altums now, and altum biotopes.

TurbineSurgeon · May 4, 2004

Thanks again, Wayne. I have done some checking on the web and found some information on them, but any links you could provide (especially on the biotopes) would be appreciated. The water out of my tap has a pH around 7.6 - 7.8 and is fairly hard. The peat (plus the CO2) really seems to be doing the trick getting the pH and hardness down. The test kit I have (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals) has a bottom reading of 6.0 and the next color patch is 6.4. The tannins in the water from the peat and a piece of driftwood make an accurate reading down there impossible. I'll be looking around for something better.

Lotus · May 4, 2004

One of the best biotope sources I found is here: http://www.mongabay.com/fish/biotope_countries.htm

You can see if they have "your" biotope, which will tell you plants and fish from those areas, as well as some general information.

Even with those AP pH kits it's hard to tell what the exact reading is. You might want to consider a pH probe (about $50), which you dip in the tank and it gives you a reading (you seem like the kind of person that likes tech toys

).

TurbineSurgeon · May 4, 2004

Thanks, Lotus. I had that bookmarked before I had to re-format my hard drive a few weeks ago. It's good to have it back.

I'll look into a pH probe also. You have me pegged pretty well. I figure if I have a $90 pair of pliers in my tool box at work, why shouldn't I have a fancy "tool" at home, too?

wayne · May 7, 2004

I think you have to go into the web rings to get the best biotope info - nonethe less there's plenty of info at the moment on altums. Start here....
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sacsg/
You will unfortunately have lots of legwork to do, but there is a mine of info here. You will also get lots of first hand info on how to deal with more unusual and especially wild caught fish

ScubaSteve · May 16, 2004

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sacsg/

That's a pretty cool group. Lots of nice angel pics.

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