My New Multies
- Thread starter DanL
- Start date
kool fishies 
Sounds like you've a thriving business there Dan, what with that occie fry factory too!
Personally I would not separate the young from parents as soon as you do, cichlids are behaviourally complex and not all behaviours are inate, particluarly those good parenting skills. Multies in particular are colony-dwellers and the young are tolerated by all the adults within the colony - why the rush to separate them?
I could understand this very well with ocellatus, where adults are known to predate their young. Talking of ocellatus, your tank layout for the multies looks much more like an occie tank - shells spaced apart rather than in small groups.
Personally I would not separate the young from parents as soon as you do, cichlids are behaviourally complex and not all behaviours are inate, particluarly those good parenting skills. Multies in particular are colony-dwellers and the young are tolerated by all the adults within the colony - why the rush to separate them?
I could understand this very well with ocellatus, where adults are known to predate their young. Talking of ocellatus, your tank layout for the multies looks much more like an occie tank - shells spaced apart rather than in small groups.
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No offense Dan but that sounds like money talking to me. You seem to care less for the fish than for the returns. Not meaning to pick a fight or anything, we're all in the hobby for different reasons. I'm not for one minute suggesting that you're wrong and I'm right, but the above reasons are exactly why I wouldn't buy from a breeder like you. (Geography would present the most compelling reason though ;-) )
I think it's a mistake to apply the same techniques to multies just because they were successful with ocellatus.
I think it's a mistake to apply the same techniques to multies just because they were successful with ocellatus.
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So the conclusion from your experience is that a higher rate of deformities results from keeping young with their parents? That has to be suspect.
No the reasons for not buying from you are not "reduced stress on the parents and reduced cull rate", that's twisting the argument Dan.
I'm just pointing out that experience gained with one species is not always directly beneficial with the next, however similar they may appear. There's a clear reason why multies should not be separated as early as ocellatus and you seem blinkered to this.
No, you're not blinkered the point about mouthbrooders is relevant here. I would NOT buy from a breeder that strips eggs or fry early because there is documented evidence that so doing robs the young of antibodies etc that help with immunity from disease and other problems in later life. Much like it is better for humans to be breast fed rather than bottle fed it is better for young fish to be at least held to term in the maternal cavity. I strip cyp fry from the mother once they have held to term and continuing to hold would present a threat to the mother - I do not think early stripping of mouthbrooders has any benefit to the fish, only for the breeder.
No the reasons for not buying from you are not "reduced stress on the parents and reduced cull rate", that's twisting the argument Dan.
I'm just pointing out that experience gained with one species is not always directly beneficial with the next, however similar they may appear. There's a clear reason why multies should not be separated as early as ocellatus and you seem blinkered to this.
No, you're not blinkered the point about mouthbrooders is relevant here. I would NOT buy from a breeder that strips eggs or fry early because there is documented evidence that so doing robs the young of antibodies etc that help with immunity from disease and other problems in later life. Much like it is better for humans to be breast fed rather than bottle fed it is better for young fish to be at least held to term in the maternal cavity. I strip cyp fry from the mother once they have held to term and continuing to hold would present a threat to the mother - I do not think early stripping of mouthbrooders has any benefit to the fish, only for the breeder.
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Each to there own Dan, no worries here.
But I dont see why you would take that as a personal attack. He didnt say you were doing anything wrong, just not what he would do in the same situation.
I wouldn't buy from a breeder who followed some of your practices either. Fry should be allowed to grow in as close as natural habitat as possible. I feel this helps ensure proper development of the fry. Speeding up the growth process is not going to do the fish much good in the long run, only free up tank space for you.
I hadn't checked out your site before. Your photography skills are very good. Also, how are the PVC elbows working out for you? I have thought about useing those before, and was wondering if the fry removal was as easy as I had heard it was using them.
But I dont see why you would take that as a personal attack. He didnt say you were doing anything wrong, just not what he would do in the same situation.
I wouldn't buy from a breeder who followed some of your practices either. Fry should be allowed to grow in as close as natural habitat as possible. I feel this helps ensure proper development of the fry. Speeding up the growth process is not going to do the fish much good in the long run, only free up tank space for you.
I hadn't checked out your site before. Your photography skills are very good. Also, how are the PVC elbows working out for you? I have thought about useing those before, and was wondering if the fry removal was as easy as I had heard it was using them.
Dan, I dont believe Taffy meant anything as a personal attack on you. Taffy is very experienced with these little guys and anything he says I personally would tend to take what he says as good information, maybe something to think about or apply in the future if you want to improve the quality of your stock.
Since you say that the water quality is the biggest factor in causing deformities etc, then if it was me, I would tend to try and work on the water quality in the adult tank. If Taffy is right (and I would have NO way of making a judgement on that one way or the other) then having clean water on the adult tank, and being able to leave the fry with the parents would yield the healthiest fry, right?
I agree with Orion...your pictures are wonderful! I'm totally jealous. What kind of camera do you use?
Since you say that the water quality is the biggest factor in causing deformities etc, then if it was me, I would tend to try and work on the water quality in the adult tank. If Taffy is right (and I would have NO way of making a judgement on that one way or the other) then having clean water on the adult tank, and being able to leave the fry with the parents would yield the healthiest fry, right?
I agree with Orion...your pictures are wonderful! I'm totally jealous. What kind of camera do you use?