NANO Cube Disaster - Please HELP!!!

[Otis]

I sincerely hope that I am in the right place for advice, help, and sympathy.

My fiance and I have been building up a 12g Nano Cube for the last 6 months into a pretty cool saltwater/reef/fish tank.

We successfully kept a Six-line Wrasse, cleaner shrimp, and clown going since we cycled the water for the first time along with a star poly, pagoda, some other basica live rock, some blue and red legged hermit crabs, and a small Emerald green coral crab.

About two weeks ago we got bold and because we have been bit by the saltwater bug and we went and bought the following:
Green Brain, sinularia, and small chunck of Xenia to add to the tank. We also decided to add a Purple Basslet that we only left in the tank for about 4 days, since he was not playing nice with our happy family.

Here's the problem:
After about 5 days in the tank, we saw that the green brain was dying. We had it at the very top of the tank to get lots of light (we at about 2W/g of light) and so we took it back along with some extra water for the store to test that they said was OK, but they thought if half of it died in just a few days then it porbably had a bacteria and that this bacteria could take out other coral and so it was good that we took it out.

Since then I noticed that everything looked saggy - pagoda, star polyp, xenia, sinularia - everything. Also, with the green brain we had decided to buy iodine and calcium test kits and therefore have recently been checking for these two things cuz they told us these were important with that type of coral. We were never ever really far off with the numbers, but we have been tweaking them some. We also bought something called "Marine Snow" (http://www.premiumaquatics.com/thestore/prods/TLF-SNOW.html) which is supposedly great for invertebrates

Then I noticed my fiance had done the normal water add/change this past Wednesday night (08/17) and she filled it way too much - I don't want to blame her for the end result, but it was too high because it screwed up the filtration - ya know if it's too high and you have the water over the ledge of where the filter system is and it's like having one volume of water. So it wasn't even really moving water thru and sucking stuff thru the filter anymore. So I lowered the water level.

Anyway, this AM before going to work I checked it out and this is what I saw - the clown was at the bottom barely swimming and breathing hard -Wrasse DEAD, and even cleaner shrimp DEAD!!! The only livestock I forgot to metion that we added was another Emerald Green Coral crab that we put in about 1.5 weeks ago when we took back the Purple Bastard - I mean Basslet.

I am very, very, very upset about this total loss - the Wrasse was the coolest fish ever!!!

What I would like to know is anyone's theories on what happened to our tank overnight like that??? Please send me your thoughts and symapthy cuz I need to ehar from someone to help me pull thru a day like this

Otis

 

[aresgod]

Well as far as I can tell you made 2 major errors, 1. Too many fish in a system that small, they produced a bunch of waste that when your filter wasn't working severly hurt your system. 2. those corals light requirments are way more that what you have, so they were probably in bad shape to beginwith, then with water quality deteriorating they got even worse, and with the addition of marine snow you further polluted your already poor water conditions, not to say that marine snow is bad product, but in a small system like that if not used properly it can be bad. So you experienced what happens when nano's go bad, there is so little water that things go from bad to worse way to fast to control(overnight) and we see the benifits of a larger, more stable tank, However, nano's are quite do-able. But adding a bunch of stuff all at once like that is generally a poor decision. However, don't let this end your SW career, start over, and stock slowly, with a MAX of 2 fish, maybe just 1 small fish and some interesting inverts and corals. Oh yea and better lights.
hope this helps
Brahm

 

[Otis]

Thanks for letting me know I did everything wrong and for the pep talk as well.

So far in this hobby we have uncovered a lot of people with a lot of opinions and theories. It seems that the LFSs in my area provide conflicting information between the stores themselves and within the store across different personnel. I have experienced this "spread of myths" before when starting past hobbies and only until after I have studied and become experienced myself am I ever able to tell who "really knows" what is going on. For me it is time to hit the books if I am going to pursue this hobby any further.

Thanks again - you are the only one who responded.

Otis

P.S.
The clown survived - what a soldier!!!

 

[1979camaro]

aresgod has hit the nail on the head with his post, and you are correct about a lot of different ideas/theories...another thing to keep in mind is that the LFS is a business and some (not necessarily yours) are more concerned with selling stuff than being entirely forthcoming with accurate information

 

[DustinKeating]

That really sucks man, But believe me there's stuff to be learned from aresgod. Everything he says has been repeated millions of times, and that's traditionally for normal sized tanks (normal=40+gallons)...in a nano, it's incredibly exagerrated.

I also have a nano, and i've also had ridiculously painful setbacks (kept tank at 90+ degrees, salinity at 1.029). But unless you're really turned off the hobby, hit the books and then try it again.

I personally think you know what went wrong, you added to much at once (and too many fish)...you outlined it pretty well in your explanation. Good luck man.

 

[Otis]

Well there is a couple more posts - I knew if I said something about nobody replying it would get a couple of more posts added to the thread

Seriously, thanks for the follow-up. Yes, we are definitely guilty of being too anxious and of our eyes getting bigger then our tank Lesson learned at the cost of dollars spent a life lost on the coolest little six-line wrasse that anybody has ever come across *DRUMMER*

Anyway, we (the clown included) are continuing on, armed with this forum and some books. Again, thank you for your support.

 

[1979camaro]

well...aresgod pretty much summed it up so thats probably why nobody else replied

 

[BlueTang]

If it makes you feel any better...... I baught a Pacific blue tang with an internal infection, brought him home to cure him in my 5 gallon quartine tank....... treated him with Meracyn 2.... well, the mistake was the 5 gallon, I new it was bad, but it was all I had, and the best I could do at the time, anyway, because of the 5 gallon which he hated, he got Ick, so I got some Rid-ick...... (caught it fast enough to where it was nothing to cure) but..... I just today got a 30 gallon for a quartine tank, and treating him with Pima fix because he's got a fungis off his tale..... $50 for all the medication, 100 to set up the quarntine, and about 60 for the fish...... $210 for a Pacific Blue Tang.........



We all make mistakes.... and learn from them, that's what the hobby's all about brotha

 

[RobMiller5]

I don't bother with SW tanks there too advanced and require too much money for me at both setup and maintanance. I know you've been touched by the evil salt water god who showed you pretty neon coloured wrasse's and beautiful clowns and all kinds of dream like coral, but to emulate the conditions that these organisms require is anything but simple. My advise if you really like SW, read SW literiture until you have a degree in it, then buy SW stuff, or if you wanna have more bang for buck, go Fresh Water! . My FW tank is so awesome, probobly same fun as SW tank only less hard and less money.

 

[wayne]

Rob, my saltwater is now cheap (pricy setup) and killer low maintenance compared to when I kept discus and L numbers.
So Otis - back to it. I know how you feel about the 6 line wrasse - I have one and won't trade it even though it is like the antichrist in tempreament, but little dotties can be good too, though it will be a one fish tank.
Generally I agree - too much going on too quick.... but by the powers of cut and paste.....

<<And how much lighting is there in a 12 G nano cube, especially if you aren't getting daylight on it??>>
About two weeks ago we got bold and because we have been bit by the saltwater bug and we went and bought the following:
Green Brain, sinularia, and small chunck of Xenia to add to the tank <<At 2WPG I am doubtful these can do well w/out some natural light, which adds it's own risks>>. We also decided to add a Purple Basslet that we only left in the tank for about 4 days, since he was not playing nice with our happy family.<<They don't , and 3 fish in a 12 is a lot, especially as the wrasse won't like it + no quarantine - you like to gamble??>>

Here's the problem:
After about 5 days in the tank, we saw that the green brain was dying.<<OK, how long acclimation, ever try to feed it>> We had it at the very top of the tank to get lots of light (we at about 2W/g of light<<not enough>>) and so we took it back along with some extra water for the store to test that they said was OK<<what did they test - do it your self>>, but they thought if half of it died in just a few days then it porbably had a bacteria <<crap, they're guessing to cover their backside>>and that this bacteria could take out other coral and so it was good that we took it out.<<never good to keep dying stuff in a nano>>

Since then I noticed that everything looked saggy - pagoda, star polyp, xenia, sinularia - everything<<water quality down the tubes>>. Also, with the green brain we had decided to buy iodine and calcium test kits and therefore have recently been checking for these two things cuz they told us these were important with that type of coral<<but hard to adjust in such a small volume - just do bigger water changes>>. We were never ever really far off with the numbers, but we have been tweaking them some<<NO!!!>>. We also bought something called "Marine Snow" <<A rotten product>>(http://www.premiumaquatics.com/thes...s/TLF-SNOW.html) which is supposedly great for invertebrates <<But not for those you own - ever tried stirring your sand - kicks up dirt, jsut as good, really.>>

Then I noticed my fiance had done the normal water add/change this past Wednesday night (08/17) and she filled it way too much - I don't want to blame her for the end result, but it was too high because it screwed up the filtration - ya know if it's too high and you have the water over the ledge of where the filter system is and it's like having one volume of water. So it wasn't even really moving water thru and sucking stuff thru the filter anymore. So I lowered the water level.

Anyway, this AM before going to work I checked it out and this is what I saw - the clown was at the bottom barely swimming and breathing hard -Wrasse DEAD, and even cleaner shrimp DEAD!!! The only livestock I forgot to metion that we added was another Emerald Green Coral crab that we put in about 1.5 weeks ago when we took back the Purple Bastard - I mean Basslet.
<<Things go downhill fast>>

My recomendations would be to start again, research lighting for what you want to keep, and learn how to water changes, and just basically research. Learn to trust your own judgement and sense so you don't have to rely on shops of unknown merit.

 

[Otis]

Thanks again everyone.

The status on my tank is that the clown is doing well and the rest of the coral are looking good - star polyp, pagoda, sinularia, and Xenia. The coral defintely get a very good amount of natural (indirect) light. The SW exposure of my house allows tons of light in, but the tank is not in the direct light (sitting in window).

I think when the time comes we will be adding a Mexican Red Headed Gobe and a small cleaner shrimp and that will be it - the Marine Snow will not be used again. Think small and stay small. Two Questions:

1) Does anybody know if workers at LFS get commission pay??? I would've thought they were hourly, but with some of the second-guessing that goes on about the store being "honest" I am wondering about how they get paid.

2/3) Regardin QT's, what is a good, cheap setup for a QT??? I have heard you don't want a substrate for it, just good cycled water that has good circulation in it. Also, what is best practice for how long to keep a new fish in the QT before putting them in the ST???

I'll be waiting aresgod *thumbsups

 

[Mushroomman]

1) Does anybody know if workers at LFS get commission pay??? I would've thought they were hourly, but with some of the second-guessing that goes on about the store being "honest" I am wondering about how they get paid

Well to answer that... The LFS I works at gets hourly pay. Honesty of staff varies on where you go, but here we give the facts and take pride in that. It all depends where you go and who is there.

 

[aresgod]

well the SW store I worked in I got an hourly wage and commision and it was the best SW Store in MA and CT combined, but that is not the same as every fish store, I would set up a small 5 gallon for the qt, just take a filter sponge, let it sit in your main tank for a while and bateria will colonize it, then take it and put it in your QT and along with some PVC for cover and you will be all set.just remove the sponge when medicating and when breaking it down. Alot of LFS don't know jack about what they are selling, but from the LFS side of things, website users could be one of my worst nightmares, people who think they know everything about fish keeping because they have read a few posts on WWM.com. heheh sorry had to add that, hope this helped, good luck, and again welcome to the tank.

 

[wayne]

Personally I use a 20 long and only half fill it. then if I need to use hyposalinity treatment ( probably the best 'first pass' cure for most ich) I just need to fill it up. Mines filtered with a fluval power filter and apart from a heater and some bits of plastic pipe (2 or 3 pieces of 1 inch, 2 pieces 4 inch diameter) thats it for me. I've also used plastic plants in the past and been pleased.
If you decide to try to keep some real tricky eaters you might want to put a few pieces of live rock in, but they will need to come out if you treat with anything, especially copper, and they should be expendable, so something real cheap with lots of algae is good for that.

 

[Otis]

Great ideas for the QT setup. That is one of my next tasks to accomplish.
Also, what is the best practice or usual amount of time that you leave the new fish in the QT, if of course they are not exhibiting any problems???

 

[1979camaro]

most people do 4-6 weeks

 

[discus4everGrl]

Rob, my saltwater is now cheap (pricy setup) and killer low maintenance compared to when I kept discus and L numbers.

You can say that again about the discus. They have been more difficult in my experience. I have actually pondered the thought of making my 55 discus into a SW tank.

 

[dbacksrat]

you know you have a good lfs if they quarantine their fish--i've taken the chance and quarantined a fish (my sixline) for two weeks because he had already been quarantined for over a month (it was a gamble that turned out in my favor)...the only problem with this bugger was that he killed all of my interesting inverts...but thats another story for another day and another thread

back to the point: don't give up...just listen to what everyone else has to say, and make sure to seek a second opinion if something doesn't sound right