Need advice on ammonia levels and....!!

[Jaimee169]

My poor fishies have gone through a lot in the last 2 weeks. Our fish were suffering from a parasite and we were told to use Parasite Guard. We used the tablets and woke up the next morning to find our fish covered in ick. We went to the pet store (quite angrily) telling them our problem. So they gave us Ick Guard. Treated the fish and suddenly we were hit by bacterial bloom. This is still a newer tank so I understand that part of all of this is due to it not being fully etablished. So due to all the stress, half our fish died in the fishocolapse. About a week later our fishies were feelin better again and we introduced a couple new friends to re supply our tank. A day or two later i noticed our fish acting strange again. Our Dalmation Molly (poor Pongo) had cloudy eyes that started to bulge. Along with our other guys acting funnny. Found it was a parasite and had no choice but to treat again. The 48th hr just passed since I did that treatment and most everyone is looking better, including our Pongo boy. However, they still seemed stressed. I checked all the levels before doing a wc, here's the readout (Ammonia 1.0 Nitrate under 20 Nitrite 1.0 Hardness 150 Alkaline 180 pH 7.6) After the wc of 25% here's the readout (Ammonia 1.0 Nitrate under 20 Nitrite .5 Hardness 150 Alkaline 140-160 pH 7.2) The area I live in has hard water... I had removed the carbon during all the treatments. Could that be why my ammonia levels are still so high? I have ammonia fizz tabs but I dont wanna put my fishies through any more stress. Is it better to wait til tomorrow and do another wc? Or do I risk the tabs? I havent gone more than a couple days (maybe 3 tops) without doing a wc. I AM still learning so any and all advice would be sooooo helpful! Please help me keep my babies happy!

 

[OrangeCones]

Found it was a parasite and had no choice but to treat again.

What parasite did the fish have originally and what is this new parasite now? What are you treating with the 2nd go-around?

I havent gone more than a couple days (maybe 3 tops) without doing a wc.

If you see any measurable ammonia or nitrite, you need to dilute it (with water changes) to bring it down. That may mean daily or 2x a day 50% water changes until the cycling is completed.

What kind of filter do you have on the tank? What do you use for a dechlorinator? Does your tap water contain chloramine (your local water company can tell you this information)?

 

[Jaimee169]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I think the first go around with a "parasite" was Ick. The person who helped me at the petstore said the Parasite Guard would cure ick as well because its a parasite. Since my fish came down with ick the next day I assume she was wrong and thats when I started the Ick Guard, then the bloom happened en that treatment was over. I had looked online at all the symptoms (links i found on this site) and it was a couple different things, depending on the fish. I didnt write down what they were called but I read that Parasite Guard would cure about anything so I gave it another try, knowing it wasnt Ick this time. They seem to be better now, at least mostly. I chose not to do the second dose of the meds because of the ammonia lvls and stress.

Ive done one 25% wc earlier and will do it again later today with a 50%. I will keep em up til i see the ammonia drop thank you
Im not sure about the chloramines in my water, I will fgure that out. I actually just ran out of my water condition with this last wc and am getting more later today. Its Aqueon- Says it gets rid of chlorine and chloramines in water. Have a suggestion on something better? Totally open to suggestions! Ive seen "Prime" thrown out a lot in the forums, but havent looked into it.

Filter is a cheap one I got at walmart. Its a 20-40gallon Aqua-Tech with a Bio fiber filter that "Eliminates toxic ammonia and nitrite 'On contact'". I was taking the bio fiber out during the treatments as well, though im not sure i was supposed to or if it matters. If it indeed "Eliminates toxic ammonia and nitrite 'On contact'"I suppose hving it back in will help things along with the wc.
Thanks

 

[OrangeCones]

If you can get Prime, I would recommend it. I've used it for decades with both salt and freshwater tanks and you can use it to bind ammonia and nitrite to make them less toxic to your fish while the tank is cycling.

 

[Jaimee169]

I gonna see where I can find Prime and pick some up. Thanks so much for your help!

 

[kirstenw]

Hi,
I'm really really sorry to "hijack" this thread but my problem may be related and not matter what i do the "post a new thread" page isn't loading the page properly so i can't post a new question.

I'm desperate!! URGENT!

I need help!
I have an aquarium that had six goldfish in it. It is fitted with a pump an understone filter thing.
I was sold these fish, with the filter in much too small of a tank so i bought a much bigger one just a couple of days later. i'm not sure of the exact gallon size but it's definitely big enough for six fish (confirmed by a fish-shop owner).
It has one u.v light over it and i treat the water and leave it to stand for a few hours before partially changing the water (which i do regularly). By the books it seems i'm doing everything right. Suddenly in the past two days everything has changed.
It went like this.
april 6th: six seemingly healthy fish, albeit in a small town.
april 8th: transfered all fish to an appropriate sized tank. second hand but thoroughly cleaned and treated water.
april 11th: first fish died (seemed healthy before hand but attributed to cheap, street bought fish)
april 15th: second fish died (though was a very overweight and disproportioned fantail fish that looked unhealthy anyway)
so i didn't worry and bought two more fish on the 16th who were correctly introduced.
they all seemed happy as larry together for a few days until on the 20th they all displayed a tendency to hang around in the corners at the surface of the water. I changed out some of the water.
april 19th: fish showing no previous trouble died. a few hours after death there was sever colour change that looks like it could have been an organ failure or his stomach filled with something unhealthy.
april 20th: after feeding. one fantail fish showed signs of swim bladder, was rising to the surface but seemed to be toughing it out. attempted salt bath after it seemed to be struggling the most but couldn't save it.
april 20th: later the same evening another fantail fish starts showing signs of suffocation. swimming slightly to the side and breathing eratically but not trying to reach the surface. given a salt bath and quarantined in a 'hospital tank' but died.
april 21st: woke up to another dead fish. who had been the most active fish before. i wasn't worried about him.

now two fish remain. one is one i've been concerned about for a while but is battling through and just seems to be a tough fish. i have cranked up the water filter and done another partial water change. the two remaining fish are still staying in the corner at the surface of the water and obviously aren't happy.
i'm not sure what else to do. i have a filter that is definitely disturbing the surface a lot. i have changed the water regularly. i have read a lot of advice against changing the entire tank water as it will destroy the good bacteria build up. at this point i'm not sure how best to make sure the remaining two don't die.
it's frustrating having done everything by the book but having mass deaths.
please help!

Kirsten

 

[KcMopar]

It is ok to change huge amounts of water as long as you can get the water to same or very close temp and use something to remove the chlorine. I do 75% water change weekly on my African tank. Your tank is not cycled yet as it sound by the info you have provided, do you have a test kit, you need one to know what the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels are. I can only assume you fish are dying from ammonia poisoning. Each gold fish will need about 30-50 gallons-ish each once they start to grow out. Keep up at least 30-50% daily until you see that the ammonia is not rising any more, Another forum member here highly recommends a product called Prime which will help reduce the deadly effect of ammonia while your tank build up bacteria. Oh and speaking of bacteria the reason you can do very large water changes is because the bacteria lives on the hard and porous surfaces of the tank. Sorry about your loss. I hope this helps. I am sure others will have suggestions as well, ask if you need help or any thing else.

 

[kirstenw]

Thank you so much for responding KcMopar.
I've spent about 3 full days looking up everything online and only really today finally started finding answers.
The two fish that were left were getting more lethargic as the day went on, while i frantically searched the internet. One eventually started clamping his fins and so i took them both out, gave them a salt bath for about 20-30 minutes, frequently changing water little by little and meanwhile cleaned out the tank.
they made a marked improvement and are back in the main (cleaned, not all out changed but glass and plastic plants wiped).
They are still favouring the same corner they were in before but this time they are using their fins more and occassionally moving away and exploring a bit. relieved to say the least.

I have to admit, i came to this pretty naive. i had basic goldfish in a bowl without filter when i was younger and they were fine. i bought these fish from a old man selling them at a market in the small town i live in in korea. I followed his instructions for the small tank and they seemed happy.

i will definitely be advertising do a 'cycle' to everyone from now on. i put my six fish in not realising this was necessary and, from what i've read, my poor fish suffered from new tank syndrome and just couldn't handle the new unfriendly environment (not to mention they probably weren't healthy to begin with).

the dissadvantage of living in korea is that everything is in another language, but once i've learned the vocabulary for things like 'amonia' and 'nitrates' i should be able to get to the big cities and get to a shop. I done the best i could with the basic equipment i have. if i keep a close eye on the two left (one was, ironically, named 'tough guy' !) then hopefully we'll manage a successful "with fish" cycle..

it's my fault. i should have realised that more research was necessary. i do feel a bit better for bringing the surviving two back from the brink though

thank you for your advice. i am planning to buy a testing kit and thermometer and better food tomorrow.

apart from those and perhaps aquarium salt and a siphon is there anything else essential that i'm missing?

thanks again

 

[kirstenw]

I've done... not "I done" X-D

 

[KcMopar]

When you clean your tank its ok to clean the glass so you can see into it but only clean about one ornamental item in the tank per week, the bacteria lives on these so you dont want to kill it all at once. Also a 30-50% change is better for new tanks until it cycles and builds up a good bacteria base. Also remember to rinse your filter in the water change water only, if you rinse it in tap water the chlorine will kill the bacteria on the filter. This is assuming you have water coming from a water treatment facility. If its well/ground water you do not have to be so concerned.

 

[kirstenw]

oops, i cleaned all the plastic plants. i didn't 'clean' the filter though. i know there's a lot of under gravel filter dislikers out there but that's what i have at the moment and it seems important at this moment not to mess with the stones. how to i rinse my filter and water pump without disturbing the bacteria hosting stones?
i wasn't cleaning the glass to see in but rather to try and get rid of some of the harmful bacteria in the early ages of cycling, as a couple of other sites advised.
yes, the new water that i change in is coming from an original smaller tank that i received the fish in. as soon as it's empty i fill it with tap water, add chlorine treatement and leave it for as long as it possible before i need to use it as change out water.
when i cleaned the plants this time around i did not rinse them in tap water, i only wiped them down while they were still in the main tank. no water was changed.

thank you for your patience and help. my fish and i will be ever greatful.
i thought i was an ok pet owner, but i'm very obviously a (healthy, well cared-for) goldfish newbie..

 

[kirstenw]

ps - i've seen a lot of varying advice on temperatures. some people seem to think that a warm tank is good for sick fish.. other sites i've read have recommended (after a salt bath) that the water temperature be dropped because a goldfish needs less oxygen when it's cold. it gets very very humid here in the summer... will the fish be ok, or is there something i can buy to keep them cool? (other than cranking up my air-conditioning?)

 

[Andrew Castagna]

You can buy a chiller from your local fish store.