Need help with cycling..

[tameem]

I'm having trouble cycling my new tank. I setup a 50 gallon tank and chose to go with the fishless cycling method, as described on the forum. I used plain ammonia from the hardware store and added ammonia daily. I was getting readinds near 8.0ppm of ammonia. But after more then a week or so, I'm still getting the same ammonia readings while my nitrites are still zero.

I decided to dilute the water so I did a 95% water change (everything except water above the substrate) and did a water test and it's reading about 1.0ppm of ammonia. I'm thinking of just adding cycling fish to go with the natural method, but I really feel this amount of ammonia is too high still for adding any fish.

Maybe I'm not waiting long enough but I want to check with this forum before I proceed this time now that I changed much of the water to try to start over.

Thanks

 

[emmanuelchavez]

the fishless cycle takes around 1 month. The only alternative I can think of is using BioSpira.

 

[tameem]

I have bene trying to research bio-spira but the link to the marineland's website doesn't work. can you tell me more about this? Can i find it refridgerated? Does it introduce all the good bacteria and kill the ammonia overnight?

 

[emmanuelchavez]

Yeah, that link was removed for some reason. You can do a search here and find more info than I could probably tell you.

But yes, you can buy it most local fish shops. It contains the bacteria necessary to start your cycle. You have to make sure it's refridgerated though. It worked well for me, I still got a mini-cycle on one of my 5 gallons, but it went away in a matter of days. I've had a good experience with it. I added my fish the same day I added the BioSpira. I waited a couple of hours before they went in though.

Once you put in the BioSpira, you would have to make sure there's "food" (ammonia) for the bacteria to survive, so you could add your fish within 24 hours before your bacteria dies.

 

[MissFishy]

Check out the link in my signature, it has some cycling info and biospira info.

 

[pwrmacG4]

I wouldn't use bio spria unless you were going to put in 2 or 3 small hardy fish to keep the bacteria alive. it does work. I have used it.. but I was using fish to cycle.. I learned the hard way

 

[tameem]

I must say Im getting some conflicting feedback on biospira. I did some research and some claim that it only works when your ammonia levels are 0. I did a 95% water change and my water is at around .50ppm right now. There is some ammonia in our tap as a result of cholaramine and Im concerned about adding any fish right now.

Im really considering doing cycling by introducing some hardy fish because I dont yet have clear direction on how to cycle using bio-spira. I really would liek to get a zero reading on ammonia level before considering any particular cycling method. My other concern is.50ppm of ammonia may be a shock to even hardy fish and would result in loss of fish.

any further ideas..? I have this 50 gallon tank setup now for about 3 weeks at least and just not sure the best way to proceed.

Thanks again.

 

[emmanuelchavez]

Just give it more time. You've started the fishless cycle already, just let it finish off. Feed it a bit more ammonia and wait it out.

It'll be a bigger pain cycling with fish! trust me!!! I did 2 50% water changes a day for nearly 2 months in my 10 gallon when I was cycling with guppies just to try to keep them alive. And that was a lot of water. Imagine doing that in a 55 gallon tank. It's a waste of water IMO.

When I used BioSpira in my other tanks there was no ammonia present. I did forget to mention that. For better results, it's best if there's no ammonia present in the water already.



If there is ammonia in your water source, then my suggestion is to continue doing the fishless cycle, to build up your nitrifying bacteria population, because when you do water changes, you'll have to remember, you'll be adding ammonia, on top of the fish wastes.

 

[tameem]

I followed the fishless cycling procedures byu adding about 1 1/2 tsp of ammonia daily. After several days of not adding any, I checked my ammonia level and it was like at around 8.0ppm. It has been two weeks I think and I still did not see any decline in ammonia and a rise in nitrites. I was expecting to see a decline in ammonia after about 3 or 4 days. doesn;t this method take longer? And im having family growing increasinly patient about the whole process while I tryu to convince them that what Im doing is correct and requires patience. Should I add ammonia daily again? Id really prefer to add fish to cycle and since im using Amquel which neutralizes and detoxifies the ammonia, hopefully the .50 reading will not be harmful to the hardy fish.

what do you think? I even went to the pet store and convinced them to give me a handlful of gravel from an established tank to seed the tank, but after a few days I still did not see reduction.

oh, and that ammonia hydroxide is sooooo strong the odor! I dont look forward opening the cap and adding it because that odor is strong.

 

[emmanuelchavez]

It takes more than just a few days. I was doing the fishless cycle on one of my 5 gallon tanks, and the ammonia was over 8ppm for 2 weeks, but then I scrapped that idea, scrubbed everything down, and just used some BioSpira, since I still had plenty left over from when I put up my 15 gallon.

Since you were adding ammonia every day, the content was probably way over 8ppm, so you couldn't tell if it was going down or not (That's the problem I had when I tried the fishless cycle). I would say to only add enough ammonia to bring it up to around 4 (this way, you'll know if ammonia content has gone up or down). I'm assuming you're using the API test kit, where the highest reading of ammonia is 8ppm?

Only add it once, and test the water for ammonia every day. Once you see the ammonia go down below 4 ppm, to around 1 ppm maybe, add more ammonia to bring it back up to 4 ppm. Continue to do this until you get to a point that when you add ammonia, it'll dissappear within 24 hours. Then start testing for nitrites. You'll have to keep adding ammonia periodically to make sure you're still feeding the bacteria.

Once nitrites dissaper, you'll be ready for fish. Just make sure to do a large water change - around 75% before you add the fish. Remember to treat your water before you put it in the tank too, it's harmful to your fish, but will also kill your bacteria and you'll have another mini-cycle in your hands.


What type of ammonia are you using btw? The ammonia I was using didn't have any smell to it. Maybe I'm just lucky and got one that was super diluted

 

[emmanuelchavez]

oh, also, there are different strenghts of ammonia and no certain way to know how much ammonia to add. You'll have to add ammonia slowly to figure out how much ammonia to add to bring up your content to a certain ppm.

 

[Airborneguy]

Definately don't just keep adding it. Like Emmanuel said, get it to a set level, and then wait till it starts dropping. Personally, I used 4ppm, but some people reccomend 2ppm. It took about two weeks to get to where it disappeared as fast as I added it. Nitrites took awhile, but then I found out that my test sticks were way off (never use them!) when I used an API kit. I just did a 50% water change and added the fish today from my 10 gallon to my 20 (the one I cycled). They are doing great exploring their new home.