Need help!!

[deadi]

I have been having a hard time getting my betta happy again. When I got him from the pet store he was vibrant, full of color. now he is lethargic at times, he is better now but still lookin bad. He spends a lot of time parked on top of the thermometer, which is just below the water line. How he manages to get up there is beyond me. His top fin usually just out of the water, looks dead laying there. He comes down from time to time and swims around for a while then heads back. Anyway, he has this silverish looking spot behing his gill. it looks like it is moving on to his fin. I have not been able to describe this to the pet store people, they seem clueless. I have been treating the tank with maracyn 2 and a little extra aquarium salt, which has livened him up a little. The spot does not seem to be getting smaller, maybe a little bigger. The tank was fresh, aged for 2 days before putting him in. Stress relief was added beforehand. water at 80 degrees. I tested with a strip kit, everything is in the safe range except for hardness but its close being a little on the hard side.

This is my second beta. The first I had in a gallon tank. He lived for a week and had the same symptoms. I felt bad so I bought the ten gallon and put him in there, I htink he stressed out and died about 8 hours later. He had a silvery spot and turned from red to a greyish red color as the current betta does, except this one seems to be toughing it out.

Ive been reading a little about betta disease and ran across the thread in the archive regarding raising the temp for a little while to see if that will help. I get the impression there are a lot of fish veterans here, so here I am.

I really would like to keep the new one alive!! Help!!!

 

[FroggyFox]

Do you do water changes?

How much and what have you been feeding him?

 

[discus4everGrl]

if he is hanging out at the top of the tank and is losing color, try adding an airstone if you don't have one already. Otherwise, I suspect it's a water quality problem. What exactly does your dip test test for. Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates...I hope at least these three.

You wrote: The tank was fresh, aged for 2 days before putting him in.

I would suspect that your tank has not cycled and is beginning to do so in which the ammonia from the betta is increasing

Also make sure your using a water conditioner that gets rid of chlorine and chloramines otherwise your fish will be poisoned by the water. Not sure if stress zyme does that, but it should say right on the front.

 

[Iggy]

Hi - Welcome to the tank... lets see if we can help you out a little.

As a breeder, I have a bit of knowledge on betta behaviour, so lets break yours down a little.

Bettas are tropical fish, they depend on warmer than room temperatures (78F) to be most active and have a healthy immune system. Cold nights or cold rooms can severely weaken their immune system, making them lethargic and susceptable to bacteria and fungal infections. Heaters are a really good idea. A small 25 watt heater (there are 'external' kinds that even fit in bowls) set at 78F is a good idea.

Sick bettas are generally:
1. Lethargic: But not all lethargic bettas are sick, some are plain lazy and like it.
2. Lose color vibrance: Due to both illness, stress or old age.
3. Clamped fins: Due to illness or stress, pretty much a sure sign of a sick betta
4. Spastic or trouble swimming: Ick, Flukes, Velvet and other infections make it harder for the betta to swim comfortably.
5. Not Eating: Healthy bettas eat well, but might be fussy with new food types. Sick bettas are not interested in food.

Also, bettas don't need a lot of water to SURVIVE, but more water gives them a much better life. Bettas have a labyrith organ, basically a primitive lung in their head that lets them hold air, so they don't depend on their gills to get oxygen like other fish. Their 'Wild' cousins use that ability to survive as they jump from puddle to puddle to eventually live in a larger, shallow lakes. Our store-bought brand bettas use the labyrith to survive shipping in tiny-tiny bags, then for a few days in those awful cups. But that is not how they are supposed to live on a permanent basis.

Ideally, a 5 gallon tank with some tall live plants (java fern, java moss), slow filtration, a small heater at 78F and weekly 25% water changes is the perfect setup (unless you can afford a 10 gallon, which is even better). Betta's like space just like any other fish, but because they don't like to 'share' space with other fish (especially other bettas) - stores need to hold them in individual containers, hence the smaller sizes you see when you buy them.

Ok, now for your betta, we need a little more info so please post:
1. Tank size - in gallons or litres
2. As a preventative measure, do a 25% water change every 3 days for now, just in case your water is the issue. Don't worry about 'aging' the water, just use a dechlorinator (I like Seachem Prime brand), and make sure the replacement water is within 2 degrees +/- of the tank temperature.
3. If you don't have a heater, get one if you can affort it. Use 25 watts for 1 to 5 gallon tanks, then 5 watts per gallon for larger tanks.
4. Post your ammonia reading in ppm and pH please just so we can rule that out.
5. STOP using salt. It helps gill function on goldfish, bettas don't need it. Salt is a 'cure-all' fromt the old days of fishkeeping - it does not apply to bettas.
6. Stop medicating the tank till you know for-sure its a bacteria infection or something else. If you want, you can use Melafix or Bettafix (same stuff) as a mild antibiotic. It is not really strong, and will help reduce the risk of infection if your betta is sick with some sort of parasite.
7. Does he have a swollen belly? If not, good. If so, they that may be a sign of internal infections, AKA Dropsy. Not a good thing. I've never cured dropsy myself
8. Is he eating? If yes, thats a good sign. If not, something is really wrong.

One last thing... keep him company, talk and encourage him. It really helps to keep them engaged.

Good luck - keep us posted on your progress!

 

[deadi]

Hi all, Thanks for the replys. He has been eating a litttle, maybe 1 or 2 pellets of beta food a day. I was putting frozen brine in but it would just sink to the bottom. I netted the extra out last night.
nitrate:20, nitrite: 3.0, hardness: 125, alkalinity:130, ph:7.6. These are according to a Mardel 5 in1 test kit.
I am using Stress Coat, it says dechlorinator on it. Nitrate has risen since last testing, I have been replacing about a gallon of water every other day, water sits out for about 24 hours and gets Stress coat before putting it in. I will be looking for a larger container today.

Tank size 10 gallons. The water temp is at 82 F, the house is at 80 F, the heater I have appears to be the "guessing kind", came with the tank kit. No readings on the dial.

Looks like he found the cave at the bottom of the tank, he is hiding in it, choosing that over the top of the thermometer. I will cease with the salt and Maracyn, It doesnt look like its doing to much.

He has a silvery spot, kind of looks like a silver paint splatter starting bhind his gill and moving on to his fin. It looks kind of shiny like a scale would. His fins are not clamped. he does not appear to be bloated, eyes look normal in size. Under his mouth has turned a grey silverish color, no more dark blue. This does not look fuzzy from what I can tell.

He has lost a lot of color, last night I noticed a white line on both sides horizontally, right in the middle much like what is described by breeders as a female ready to breed(I think) but he has very long fins and I dont think he is a she, he does not look even close to the females I have seen.

I have been reading a lot lately and yes, I jumped right in. The pet stores do not tell you all the need to know stuff like "cycling the tank". I was under the impression those bettas are pretty tough but the standard is really not that high. They are fragile, enviroment sensitive. My neighbors have two bettas in one of those 2 gallon tanks with a seperator. They have been in there for about 3 months now. Just found this out. I am really curiuos how? I would like to ask them next time I see them.

I do engage the fish when I can, usually waking him up from his rest on top of the thermometer. He will swim around for a while and go back. I enjoy watching him swim when he does. I was hoping doing this was not stressing him out. I turned the aquarium light off, I dont have a top cover in the tank(there is a lid though) I imagine rice patties are top covered buy plants. I will work on top cover.

Again Thanks for your replys, I am interested in a healthy fish, hoping he gets better.

 

[svetlana]

You nitrite is awfully high.

 

[discus4everGrl]

If your nitrite is that high he is suffering from toxicity from the water quality. You tank is not cycled. And if your nitrites are that high, how high is the ammonia?

 

[Timbo]

Well done iggy.Bettas and common sense are rarely put together. Nice to see some .

 

[Timbo]

Read you nitrites.... Change the water... About 25 to 50% should help and if your tank has not cycled then test every day and change about 20 to 25% per day More if it keeps rising.