New Guy with questions

[BigNickB]

I'm a bad fish owner. I have a 29 bow front, set up pretty with driftwood and a couple of lava rocks. In it, I have:

2 Oscars
1 Auratus
1 Carpintis
2 plecos
1 Black Belt Cichlid
1 Marmalade
1 Jack Dempsey

I know you are not supposed to mix Africans and South Americans, I found this out after I did a little research. (My dealer told me they would be fine.) I also know the Oscars need a 55 gallon to themselves.

My question is this, my fish are vibrantly colored, don't fight, and are very healthy. I am getting a 55 gallon(not long), with the fish I have now, how bad is their situation? I don't want to be cruel to them, but I also don't want to just get rid of them, as trading in really isn't an option in my area.

Any help in this matter would be appreciated. I'll see if my dig cam can take a pic, to illustrate what I'm talking about.

 

[brian1973]

hey first of welcome...second off never listen to the fish store guys unless you know them.

I have recently setup a 90g and the stocking is 2 Oscars, 1 Pleco, 4 Giant Danios and 2 striped Rapheal Catfish....I can tell you now there are those here that would tell me I am way overstocked in that 90g.

So onto the questions, when did you purchase these fish and setup the tank, has it been cycled, what are the water params. I would recommend using craigslist to find a 90galoon, I suspect these fish are small right now, dont believe anyone that has told that they will only grow as big as the tank..I'm not going to get into the specifics but it is BS.
You are going to be in trouble unless you get atleast 2 large tanks IMO for the simple fact each pleco, if they are the common pleco and not a species that stays small, can use a 55g to itself in reality. I have heard, not witnessed, plecos can become aggressive to there own kind as they get bigger mine does occasionally push the oscars out of his way.
Now you may be able to get away with the Jack in a 90g or bigger with the Oscars..im not sure. I know nothing of African's so have to wait for someone else to help you there.

 

[Hamburgler]

Well...the african mixing is the least of your worries as the "marmalade" and auratus are the only africans there. The oscars, black belt, carpintis, jd, and plecs are all going to get large and a 55 won't be big enough for the group let alone some specifics.

The entire group could mix, given they get along after reaching maturity...in a tank of at least 90-110 gallons +. The 55g will work work temporarily with all of them, but the oscars will get too big, and the other large cichlids may get too aggressive.

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Very bad. Extremely bad. 29gal might as well be a goldfish bowl. Very possible your fish are becoming stunted in the current tank.

The black belts get HUGE and mean, the oscars get huge and mean, the Auratus is basically hell in a fish. None of which should be in a 29gal tank. Plecos, just no....these get incredibly huge and produce tons of waste.

I highly you suggest getting rid of every fish and starting over with some planning and a good stocklist.

 

[SinisterKisses]

Oh god, I'm sorry, but I have to recommend taking all your fish back or finding them homes and starting fresh AFTER you do your research.

Even IF you take out the two Africans and stick with the rest (all Americans)...you're looking at a minimum of a 150gal tank, quite likely bigger than that if the black belt is a male and has an attitude (which is very likely).

Take out the Africans and the black belt, and you might get away with it in a 110-125gal tank. MIGHT. Depending on the attitudes of your specific fish.

 

[BigNickB]

Wow. I guess my plan is to get rid off the two Africans, move them into a 55 for now, and then save up for a 210 gallon.

I did a water test, just now and here are the results:
Nitrates: 40ppm
Nitrites:0ppm
Total Hardness(GH): 300ppm
Total Chlorine ppm
Total Alkalinity: 120ppm
ph: was above 7.8, but not near 8.4.

These guys have been together for about 6 months, I had no idea the room that fish need. I should have done some research.

 

[BigNickB]

I had one more question: If fish get stunted, what does it mean?


Ok just got done downloading the pics.

The blurry guy at the top is the Auratus, and the guy in the corner with the spots is my Carpintis.

There's my Auratus.

There's my JD.

The Carpintis likes the corner, so its hard to get a good shot of him.

I have a whisper Top Fin 30 HOB, a Whisper 60 HOB, and a whisper 60 gallon capacity air pump on it.

 

[brian1973]

Well you admitted to your screw up so done deal, most of us have done it, as a matter of fact most of us ended up here for the same or similar reason.

I'm guessing you are using test strips because the test strips i was using would be read in the exact same order..go buy yourself an API master freshwater kit. You need to do a water change you are at the high end of safe nitrates, some here say that they shouldnt be over 20ppm.

Are you planning on a new 55g or used? For what you are going to spend for a new 55g you will probably be able to find a 90g or bigger on Craigslist, you may have to drive a bit but IMO buying a 55G that will only get you thru a couple months is a waste of money.

I would take Sinisters advice shes far more knowledgable on cichlids than i am I only speak from my personal experience..sorry I didnt realize the black belt was SA.

 

[brian1973]

Stocking aquarium fish - Algone.com
Theres a link about stunted growth..the truth is it has less to do about tank size than it does about water conditions acces to food..in the wild this is called carrying capacity...the example in wild fish would be a pond that is full of bluegill..the chances of one reaching full adult size is rare..they just dont have the food supply to reach maximum potential.

 

[BigNickB]

I'm kinda stuck with the 55, getting it off EBAY, for a decent price, and yes I was using strips. I will look for an API kit next time I head out.

Is it bad for the fish to be stunted? I mean healthwise?

 

[Cichlid-Man]

However water conditons are much more apparent in a smaller tank being so concentrated. Plus with that many fish things can get out of hand quick. Which will cause stunting. Yes stunting is bad. Basically the inside of the fish grows normally and the outside stays the same...do the math. Other problems can include spinal problems/organ failure due to them being so large compared to the fish.

Truthfully i'd dump more fish then the africans, the africans arn't even the biggest problem at this point. Even in a 55gal your still overstocked. Better hope that 210 comes quick.

To use one of my old phrases.....Fight Night at the MGM Grand. And its the heavy weight title fight. You have at least 4 tpyes of fish, 5 total fish in that tank that could be considered "Tank busters" meaning they grow to at least a foot long. Thats not including the plecos.

 

[SinisterKisses]

brian...close, but black belts are actually Central American

To touch on the stunting issue you're asking about, yes, stunting is very bad for a fish's long term health. It dramatically cuts down it's expected lifetime - cichlids can live for years, especially the large ones (for a healthy, large cichlid like a black belt, 12 or more years is not uncommon), so we're talking about taking years off the life of a fish. Who knows what else it does to them too.

 

[BigNickB]

Thank you guys for the info.

 

[big54bob]

Nice JD*thumbsups
If i were you id get rid of all the fish except for the JD and Oscars. That should at least leave you at a 90gal min in stocking.
If you guys want here worse my bro has a 20gal and he has a JD, pl*co, Rapheal cat, and 3 cons

 

[SinisterKisses]

A 90gal tank isn't big enough for two adult oscars plus a JD on top of that. Just one oscar and the JD, probably would be okay, but that third O in there is definitely highly overstocking it.

 

[Hamburgler]

The stocking police are getting out of hand. These fish are not being stunted (yet), and a saying a 90 isnt big enough for two O's and a JD is a litte out there. You guys need to open up your minds and stop being so critical of someone looking for help. Most people out there dont take the initiative at all. You guys should also spend some time selling fish...not only to see what some people do but to hear about the odd mixes you would have never thought worked.

BigNickB, PM me if you want some more informative, less snobby forums to check out.

 

[Cichlid-Man]

The stocking police are getting out of hand. These fish are not being stunted (yet), and a saying a 90 isnt big enough for two O's and a JD is a litte out there. You guys need to open up your minds and stop being so critical of someone looking for help. Most people out there dont take the initiative at all. You guys should also spend some time selling fish...not only to see what some people do but to hear about the odd mixes you would have never thought worked.

BigNickB, PM me if you want some more informative, less snobby forums to check out.

Sorry but what are we supposed to do in this situation? Oh its ok *pat on the back* All your fish are going to die or kill each other within 2 months, but we need to be nice and tell you everything is going to be ok so you can live in la la land forever and not realize the real needs of these fish.

Wow troll much? I doubt you will find much nicer replies on any other forum. Go to any cichlid forum and you'd get blasted out of the water. MFT is as nice as they come. Gonna preach MFK some more? I'm sure they would like this mix in this sized tank.

I'm not one for sticking with stocking guidlines, anyone who has talked with me for a little while would know this....but this is just out of control stocking. You have LFS goggles on if you can't see that.

That being said we are helping. Telling him to start over by taking the fish back. You should know being Mr. Informative and Petco salesman that none of those fish can live in a 29gal. And only a few of those species in a 55gal. Stunting can happen slowly or rapidly and its not going to show itself like Ich or another disease will, so judging stunting time is retarded, theres no set time for it. Every day they spend in a very cramped, stressful, and dirty enviornment the chance of becoming stunted increases. Not to mention all the disease that could be caused from the stress. And yes the tank is dirty no matter how good you clean. 2 plecos alone is enough, but add in 5 tank busters....

I would sell fish, and i'd be a responsible LFS owner/Hobbyist that won't sell these fish to a tank this small. We're not saying this mix won't work...thats not it at all. We're saying the mix won't work in this size tank.

I think its very unclassy to call MFT a snobby and less informative forum as well as advertise others through PMs. Why are you still around MFT if there are such greener fields out there? You sure changed your tune about this place since the beginning when you got here. Don't let the tank top hit you on the way out.

/rant.

 

[Toam]

Well said!

I've briefly gone over this whole thread, and I agree, most everyone simply advised him to take the fish back and await his 210 gallon. It seem's like sound advice to me. I keep a couple of oscar's, and personally I think the auratus would be food too them in time. If it is possible, definitely return the fish (I know you'll miss them, I would, I get giddy as a school girl when I get fish) And soon as you get the 210 gallon, look into some stocking for that, you could even look into freshwater rays; It's not how many fish you have in the tank, but in the end, it's the look's of that one fish.

 

[SinisterKisses]

You guys should also spend some time selling fish...not only to see what some people do but to hear about the odd mixes you would have never thought worked.

Call me a snob and I get to bite back. You sound exactly like someone I would expect to be selling fish at an LFS or chain store that I spend most of my time telling new hobbiests to flat out IGNORE any advice they get from, because most store employees know nothing and give the worst advice ever. Way to prove my theory.

Like it or not, a 90gal with two adult O's and an adult JD is overstocked. And as Matt said already - MFK is probably exactly the perfect forum for you - again, the one forum out there that I avidly warn everyone elsewhere to avoid like the plague because of the insane bad advice that comes out of there.

No one was being a snob in any way until you decided to pipe up with that post. We were helping a member who asked for help. Again as Matt said (very well-written reply overall, good on ya Matt), I'm sorry that we aren't sugar-coating everything, patting people on the back and lying to them about their setups that won't work really will because it's what they want to hear. If people ask for help, then we logically assume they actually WANT help, not lies.

 

[Orion]

Nobody was being 'snobbish' or rude. If someone wants to actually add something USEFUL to the thread to help the OP feel free, otherwise everyone would be wise to not post. I take offense to what was said, and don't feel that anything more needs to be said about it.