new tank: help needed...we're newbies

[moomoofatcow]

a friend of mine's younger sister wanted some clownfish...so being the good sister that she is, she went to the petstore with the intent of buying a small tank, and a couple of fish...to make a long story short, they sold her a 72 gallon tank, with a sump and everything...and she didn't really understand what she was getting into, but just bought it cuz the pet store guys said she needed it. i was skeptical, but it was her money and her sister needed those clownfish.

AFTER buying all of this, im starting to do a little research on saltwater tanks, and it looks like she is getting into a lot more than she bargained for. anyways, that's the situation...i just have a few questions. i think im just trying to get a second opinion other than the guys at the petstore.

live sand. it's way expensive!! is it absolutly necessary? we just want a swim tank, nothing fancy...just fish swimming around. no coral, or other things like that. maybe a rock here and there and some fake plants. the guy at the petstore is saying that we can only use live sand...and we need 4 bags, at 40 bucks a pop. what is the deal?

live rock. in a swim tank...do we need it?

what about creatures to help keep the tank clean and what not? any recommendations?

just anything to help out some people who are in way over their heads already?

how long do we need to wait before we can add fish to the tank after filling it up with water?

the pipe that drains water from the tank to the sump is really noisy...any suggestions on fixing that?

how full should the sump be?

now that we've bought all of this stuff...it seems like the pet store guys are less less interested in answering our questions...and we have a lot!! that's why i came here. if there is anything you can suggest...please do.

now the most important question: do saltwater tanks have a good resale value? hehehe...j/k. i think were going to try and push through it, but it doesn't look easy...and she is losing hope fast, and is just about ready to dump the whole project. thanks for reading

 

[1979camaro]

boy...youve got yourself into a mess here: let me see if i can help with the immediate emergencies

First of all: The guys at the LFS (local fish store) screwed you guys over. You don't need most of the stuff they sold you and I imagine you don't have a lot of the stuff you do need. If all you want to do is keep a pair of clownfish without corals, etc, there is absolutely no reason to get a 72 gallon tank. If they will take it back, it might be a good idea if you don't really think this is something you want to get involved in. It is a lot of work and a lot of money. I, however, am confident that you can do it and I hope you stick with it. If you decide to return it, but still want the clowns, a 55gallon without a sump would be a good starter tank for someone interested in keeping fish only...you could then later add some other fish.

But, it sounds like you've got it all filled up and running since you complain of the noise from the overflow, so perhaps its better just to stick with the 72 with the sump. In the long run it will be much more flexible and give you more options in the future.

I'll start off with an easy one: fixing the noise from the overflow. A durso standpipe will do this well, and here is a link explaining about it; they are easy to make and very effective in my opinion.

http://www.dursostandpipes.com/

The sump should be full enough that your equipment will run properly (pumps, heater, skimmer (which i reckon you dont have)) but not so full that if the power goes out that it will overflow from the reverse siphon. Did you drill an anti-siphon hole in your return line?

Of immediate importance is your water: did you mix the salt in already? are you using a hydrometer to measure salinity? this is very important for SW fish...hopefully you dont have the clowns in there right now!

The tank needs to cycle before you can put anything alive in it other than LR (live rock). If you do not plan to use LR , which personally i think is a mistake, you should cycle the tank using a grocery store shrimp; if no live rock I would look into getting some live sand. A local reef society, or fellow reefer, can probably donate a cup full to you which would be enough to get you going; just fill the rest of the tank with some non live aragonite sand from the LFS. Of course, if you are going to cycle with LR you dont want to add the sand until after the cycle. To know when the cycle is complete you will need ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits. A pH test kit will be important also. Have you ever kept fish at all? There is so much to learn just in the way of basics if you have not.

I note that you are in Sonora; its pretty hot there if I recall, so unless you run the A/C all day (and maybe night) you are probably going to need a chiller. This is like a little refrigerator for your aquarium. Another hefty expense.


creatures: you are a long long way form creatures I am afraid...so why don't we hold off on that until the time comes.

The most important commodity you will need is patience and reading material. I direct you to the sticky post at the top of this topic entitled "things you will need...." as well as wayne's "step by step account"

you are kind of in a mess...and an expensive one at that...but this is a great hobby and one which can provide a lot of enjoyment and i sincerely hope you stick with it. Dont get in a hurry, for your sanity and the fishes health...and dont be cheap...unfortunately, saving money by buying inferior products will often just haunt you later

 

[aresgod]

OK so first thing, live sand is not essential, it is pretty and they guys at the LPS are ripping you off, i paid 75$ for 50 lbs of premium live sand delivered to my door, u can buy regular dry sand from the lps or i even have heard of people putting in regular playground sand

live rock not essential but helps with filtration plus it looks pretty, u r gonna want a little bit of it, to start with

You will also want a clean up crew, snails crabs shrimps ect, www.liveaquaria.com is a good place to look up compatability and research what stuff u want, you will want to buy a master saltwater test kit , this will help you know when your tank is cycled, i.e. you can put fish in,

the noisy pump thing can be adjusted by regulating the flow on the pump that is putting water back into the tank, sometimes the pumps have a option on them selves, i personnaly just put in a pvc check valve, the sump should be 75% full IMO it allows for you to add water changes ect into it,

Also this IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART of my reply, as soon as you are done reading this go out and buy books, there is a lot of stuff u need to know, Mike palettas new marine aqaurium is a good place to start, there are tons of books out there, takeyour pick, read them, then come back to us with more questions

good luck
Brahm

 

[S.Reef]

Ha! First one to it...err never mind.

To start a marine aquarium takes a large amount of time and money to get going and stay going. Research is vital. Online forums and books are very good resources.

I think what the petstore did was good for her. Yes you can start smaller, but a bigger tank gives more room for error. A sump is also a good idea. Yes, its not needed but it is a nice feature that most people want.

Live sand is not mandatory. It really should not cost $40 maybe $35 at the most. What I would recommend would be to get a few bags of nonliving sand and a bag of the live sand to seed the tank. Eventually bacteria on the live sand will move to the nonliving sand.

Live rock. In my opinion you need it. For a tank your size.. go with about 30-40lbs for biological filtration and more if you want decoration.

A good clean-up crew would consist of 20 blue legged hermits, 20 red legged hermits, 20 astrea snails, 2 brittle stars, 2 sand sifting stars.

Once saltwater has been added and the salinity is right. Add the rock and sand. Depending if the rock is cured you can add the clean up crew a week later. A week after that you can your fish.

For the overflow you can cover the drain pipe with a sponge. This reduces noise.

Stay in there! the results are quite rewarding.

 

[S.Reef]

Damn...i had to do the dishes and didnt get it first.

 

[1979camaro]

lol...damn chores!

always good to have it drilled in though...the more sources for some info the more likely it is to be believed

 

[Nutfarm]

I'd like to lead off with the opinion that you're not so bad off in the first place. You could be in over your head, but at least it's not a small tank (which takes a lot more precision).

Live sand is not a necessity. If you get a little to seed your "dead" sand, you'll be fine. Live rock goes hand in hand with this process. Pick up a few pieces and you'll be good. My opinion on liverock is, the more the better. It contains, for the most part, the same organisms as the live sand does, but a few extras. It's best to start with both if at all possible.

As for a cleanup crew, there's been a debate in the SW community for some time now. Blue legged hermits vs Red legged hermits / turbo snails vs mexican (black) turbo snails. It's my opinion that neither is better than either. Get some snails, get some hermits and you'll be set on a clean up crew.

Lastly, pick up those test kits. The last thing you wanna do is toss fish into a cycling tank. Wait until your ammonia and nitrate levels are 0 before adding fish, and nitrate levels are below 10 before thinking about anenomes. With a little patience, you shouldn't have any problems at all.

Main thing... stick with this and don't neglect a delecate situation! it'll only make things go badly.

 

[wayne]

That lfs is ripping you off. Live sand is nice , but nothing like essential. You want enough sand to cover the base thinly. Aragonite is nice, but if you can't find it, so be it. Crush coral with grains more than 3 mm in size sucks.
The most important things you need are a big bag of salt and a hydrometer and thermometer. Get the thing running and add salt till it's 77 degrees +-2, and with a SG of 1.020 to 1.024.
Then leave it and read a book called Mike Palettas New MArine Aquarium. It will cost about 20 dollars I gues and will save you hundreds more.
I would go with live rock. It is pricey to buy, but you will get a nice stable system that will not kill you to maintain it. I suggest you read how I set up a small tank recently, but I can assure you it is an easy tank to run, and has not killed anything