New Tank. Shellies?

[tydirian]

I am getting a 24g Nano Cube for my office. I have been trying to decide if I was going to do fresh or salt and decided on fresh. I have wanted a cichlid tank for a while and thought this might be a good fit. The tank is basicaly a 19" cube.

I have been reading on shellies and they seem the right scale for this kind of tank.

How many shell dwellers can this size tank handle? I was thinking of doing brevis or multis (or maybe both depending on you guys feedback). If I put something high in the middle like a rock pile or a big piece of wood to break up the space will that let me keep a few more fish?

I like live plants and wanted an opinion on something like Java fern and A.nana mounted up off the bottom on some driftwood.

Ok, this part may seem crazy so bear with me. What about larger filter-feeder shrimp like wood or vampire? Just throwing it out.

 

[Orion]

Most cichlids eat crustations in the wild, so even if it was not big enough for them to eat, I would worry that they may pick it to death anyway. However if the shrimp is big enough, then I would worry about it picking on, and eating the shellies. They don't go up to get away from danger most of the time, and all the shrimp would have to do is wait for one to come out of the shell to grab it. I don't know if they will or not, but those shrimp that you mentioned get pretty big I think. Either way, I don't think I would take a chance with a shrimp.

I would not sujest both multies or brevis in a tank this small. I have a colony of multies and a pair of brevis in a 75 gallon on either ends that seems to work out well. Not often, but sometimes the brevis will wonder over to the multies shell bed, and when he does the multies do not like it one bit, and chase him away. But not before the brevis gets a few licks in of his own. No harm comes to either fish in my tank because they can get almost 4 feet away from each other, and have rocks and other fish between them. So you see, in a smaller tank they would not be able to get away from each other, and would harrass one another untill one species came out on top. Your better off sticking to one species of shellie.

I would sugest the multies. Depending on how much you wanted to spend, you could start out with a trio of them 1male/2females. May not seem like a lot of fish at first, but they will quickly breed and populate the tank. You can easily go with more if you wanted too, but I would keep the m:f ratio no less than 1:4.

Tank sounds neat enough, but I'm just having a hard time visualizing what it would actualy look like. For other tank mates that come from Lake Tanganyika, I would look into Julidochromis transcriptus and Julidochromis ornatus. These will take up in some rockwork in the tank. If you get some julies, make sure that it is one of these two species, and stay away from Julidochromis transcriptus 'Kissi Bemba'. Nasty fish it is. But these two are the smaller and more docile out of the julies, and normaly will not harass the shellies or bother them much. You may be able to get away with Julidochromis dickfeldi as well.

Java fern or anubias would be fine in the tank.

 

[phOOey]

yay, one of my favourite topics, shellies! seems like orion has answered all your questions though. i too, would go with multies, i started off with 1m/2f ratio in a 5g with them, but quickly found myself upgrading to a 29g as the colony grew.

about the shrimp, if you mean something like this http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_atyopsis.php i think it could work to be honest, its big enough not to get harrassed by the multies, but its a filter feeder and will not even eat the smallest of fry, so if it were me, i'd probably try it.

 

[tydirian]

Good info. Both of the shrimp that I like are filter feeders and do not mess with fish or fry. They tend to hang out near the water return in the tank. This made me think I might be able to get away with it, shrimp up top in the tank and shellies at the bottom. The shrimp are probalby a bad idea if I got Julies.

As for visualizing the tank, I am planning on buying a 24g Nano Cube. I was planning on building a rock cave wall on the back wall. Placing thin driftwood in the center and having a sandy bottom in a "U" shape around the front of the tank. This is where i would put the shells. Plants fixed to the driftwood.

I will have a look at the julies at the LFS this week to see what they have and report back. Thanks for the help. I am ordering the tank this week so I will snap some pics as it comes together.

What about something like Lamprologus stappersi?

 

[tydirian]

I am also not fixed on Brevis or Multis. If there is something else intresting for a tank this size I would like to hear about it. I would like shell dwellers though and I would like to put more than one kind of fish in the tank.

Cheers.

 

[Orion]

I wouldn't even trust a filter feeder with small fry. That's just me.

Other options? well what direction do you want to go in? Stay with Lake Tanganyika, cichlids in general, what?

L. stappersi needs lots of room, and I don't know how well anything else would mix with them in your tank. It would make a wonderfull species tank I think for a small group.

 

[tydirian]

I want to stay with Lake Tanganyika cichlids. I do want shellies for the bottom of the tank and would like to have another cichlids living in the rocks. I was planning to built the rock wall almost to the top of the tank and wanted to have something like multies on the bottom and something that would maybe stay mid tank on the rocks.

 

[FroggyFox]

I got some n. cylindricus when I started up my tank...and they are a sweet little fish. VERY timid. I think if you got just them to start a colony it might work. They stay relatively small and live in caves/rockwork. Unfortunately I rarely see mine except during feeding. I think he's too timid to come out of his cave most of the time because of the other fish in the tank.

I have some transcriptus and they're pretty cool...but they seem to like the bottom of the tank more than the cave structures above the ground. They aren't nasty...but the big guy will definitely chase anything out of 'his' territory if they get too close. And they LOVE ghost shrimp heh

 

[tydirian]

I went to the only 2 LFSs that I buy fish from today and both had very nice looking transcriptus. They were small and not sure that they could be sexed. There were some brevis and others that I was not intrested in.

So do transcriptus just pair or can they be kept with one male and several females? Also some of the sites list them as sand spawners and some list as rock dwellers so does it just do both?

 

[Orion]

There have been some reports of the dwarf julies (transcriptus, ornatus, dickfeldi) using colony breeding, but the norm is pairing. I have 5 juvie J. dickfeldi 'midnights' that I'm really hopeing takes to the colony idea.

They are substrate spawners. This meens that they spawn in the sand, but do so with the cover of rocks and caves. True sand spawners dig large pits in the open to spawn in.

 

[tydirian]

Ok, that is good info. Any options for something that would stick to the rocks and give the multis some room at the bottom? Incidentally I just broached the idea of another tank with the wife last night and got approval. I will defiantly order it this week.

 

[Orion]

The julies will most likley fit the bill for that. My 75 gallon is quite an active tank, so my julies are all over the place. However before they had so many tankmates they never ventured far away from the rocks. So this could be seen as a good thing for your situation.

The smaller julies and shellies are really about the only fish well suited for life in a small tank.

If your interested in keeping any of the fry from the mutlies, then you should really go a species tank. Not saying that none of the fry will not survive in a community setting, some will. Just no where near the ammount that would in a species only tank.

Have you looked at any of the Altolamprologus calvus? It is an idea, but with the footprint, I really don't know how well they would do. They seem to have a very overated reputation for being great fry hunters. The julies I have are excellent at this though, so I would expect to see few fry from the multies make it adult hood with julies in the tank.

As odd as it may seem, I love the look and behaviour of shellies in big tanks. It truely feels that they are acting more natural. A Tanganyikan community may be just what needs to be put into the new tank you may get!

 

[tydirian]

I have looked at the calvus one of my LFSs has some very nice ones. I have not been able to find multis anywhere. I checked on getting a tank and tried to order but the store (jbjnanocube.com) told me that JBJ was releasing an updated version of the 24g cube with different glue to stop the cracking issues. So I will be waiting a few more weeks to get the newer tank.

I think I am decided on Julies trans. Both of the LFS that i use have them and they are nice. Not sure about the shellies as my choices are limited. I have only found breves.

 

[Orion]

Hey at least you've found out about the tanks the easy way!

Check around with some local fish clubs. You can normaly find some great fish, at good prices from members.

 

[tydirian]

Yes, there is a Houston Aquarium Society meeting next month. I was going to try to make that and see if there is anyone that has what i am looking for. I did find a very nice LFS in Austin this week and they did have multies and the fish guy says they usually carry them so that might also be an option.

 

[tydirian]

No more waiting on the Nano Cube. I have given up on that tank as to many people have issued with cracking. I am going to get the Oceanic 30 cube or the 37 show. This now being the case has anyone modded one of these to build a wet-dry in the back of the tank?

 

[tydirian]

Ok so I bought a tank finally. I got the Oceanic 30g cube. And well you know me (ok you don't but this is typical) I could not just put sand and rocks and fish in it so I decided to make a major project out of it. I am going to build a overflow/filter/powerhead return into the back section of the tank. I guess I will start a new thread on DIY and keep you guys updated.

 

[Orion]

Nice! I've always liked the look of the 30g cube. To pricey for me for it only being 30 gallons, but a nice tank anyway.

I don't really know about the built-in wet/dry. My guess is to model it after the nanos that have the system already built in.

 

[tydirian]

That is what I am doing. I talked the Petsmart manager into discounting the tank and stand to just under $300 from the $340 sticker.

 

[tydirian]

Ok, everything is ordered and I got the acrylic and most of the plumbing in. I mocked up the overflow/filter (i need to take some pics and post them).