New to cichlids, help me choose?

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RobD

Medium Fish
#1
Jun 14, 2004
78
0
0
Mt. Pleasant, MI
www.cst.cmich.edu
#1
German Rams, help me sex them?

Update for 9/4/04 : #2 and #4 spawned - see my latest message on page 2.

Update for 8/29/04 : I have rams now, see later posts about sexing them (and figuring out if one is a Bolivian or a German).

Okay, I'm new to cichlids and don't know what to choose for my tank. I have a 46 gallon community tank, and want to get something that isn't going to make a meal out of my other fish. My signature has my current inhabitants listed. My wish list also includes a Pearl Gourami or two, and maybe some schools (6-8 ea) of Harlequin Rasbora and/or Black Neon Tetras.

I was thinking about Blue or Bolivian Rams as my next addition in two weeks. I like that the Blue stay smaller, but the Bolivian might like the tank water better. Are there some other good choices? I am not really interested in breeding. My LPS says they are getting some Blues in on Wednesday, but I think it is too soon to add them, the Jullii will only have been in there a week.

Water pH is about 7.8-8.0, temp is 76-78*F. I really don't want to mess with the water, would rather find fish that will be happy with it as-is. I am adding Prime to the water with water changes (for the chlorine in the tap), so my ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite are all reading 0 at the moment.

The big questions:
1) What type(s) should I choose?
2) How many and what type of population mix would be good? 1m, 2m, 1m/1f, 1m/2f, etc?
 

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R

RobD

Medium Fish
#3
Jun 14, 2004
78
0
0
Mt. Pleasant, MI
www.cst.cmich.edu
#3
McG -

Yeah, I thought about Kribs but they get bigger than what I want. I'm trying to stay with smaller fish, though I know the Pearl Gourami is going to be a biggie. I want to keep an eye on the bioload, though I think the Eheim can handle it.

Wow - you're not that far from me. I live in Mt. Pleasant, but grew up in Davison. My sister lives in Swartz Creek. Small world!
 

R

RobD

Medium Fish
#6
Jun 14, 2004
78
0
0
Mt. Pleasant, MI
www.cst.cmich.edu
#6
Cichlid-Man -

Well, I was hoping you would post a reply. Do you have any recommends on either of the rams I mentioned? My LPS doesn't have a real big variety to pick from. I'm not sure they have the cockatoo or not, will have to stop by on the way home from work and look.

Also, what would your stocking opinion be for the blue? Can males coexist together? I'm not sure if I'll be able to get a female or not, since my LPS hasn't had any in the last couple of weeks to see what their stock is composed of. I want to avoid damaging aggression, even during mating. I guess they can bicker between themselves, but I don't want the jullii to be the ones getting picked on.

I have been doing some reading in varous forums, but after a point it just starts swirling in my head. About the only thing I know I don't want is a Green Terror! ;^)
 

C

Cichlid-Man

MFT Staff
#7
Jul 9, 2003
8,866
14
38
38
Columbia, SC
www.youtube.com
#7
Either ram is a good choice. Blue's are more common. I think you would be able to get by with a few males...since you do have a 46gal. Just provide enough cover. They should work great into your setup....the danios are to fast to catch IF they even tried and the cories shouldn't be a problem. Really its a personal preference. I love both. I would prefer Blue's over Bolivian just because of the color aspect.
 

R

RobD

Medium Fish
#8
Jun 14, 2004
78
0
0
Mt. Pleasant, MI
www.cst.cmich.edu
#8
Cichlid-Man -

Yeah, blues are what I think I want, from all the reading. I updated my pics in the Rate My Tank section. You could pop over there and see if I have enough cover. There are now 8 plants of each type, 24 total. I also added another lava rock, so now there are 6 lava "holes" for fish to sit in, along with a small cave at the base of the larger one on the right side.

So 4 males won't cause any problem? Thursday is Buy-one-get-one-free day at my LPS. Blue Rams are $7.99 each normally. I could get 4 for $16. (I got my Julliis for $2 each that way!). What would happen if a female made it into the group? Would that be trouble, aggression-wise?
 

R

RobD

Medium Fish
#10
Jun 14, 2004
78
0
0
Mt. Pleasant, MI
www.cst.cmich.edu
#10
So basically I should try to get all males and no females?

Will four of them be too many? Or because of their delicate nature I should just expect some early loss that will "thin" the group down anyways?

Now all I hope is that the stock my LPS gets is good - I'm excited to see this fish in real life and get some in my tank. My cats want something bigger to dream about snacking on...
 

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wayne

Elite Fish
#11
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#11
Kribs are good, might get a bit cross. Put their cave into a corner.

Rams are good if you can get good ones. Most people can't and they all die over a period of weeks. I have very little time for rams anymore. Bolivian rams are better as they seem to be inbred less, and come from more alkaline water anyway.

Apistogramma are great, and likely ideal. Cockatoos aren't my fave anymore as they're all starting to show inbreeding signs

There are lots of other dwarfs but you'll have to ask. What can you get?
 

R

RobD

Medium Fish
#13
Jun 14, 2004
78
0
0
Mt. Pleasant, MI
www.cst.cmich.edu
#13
Well, the LPS didn't get any rams in like they said they were going to. So instead, I picked up a very nice Pearl Gourami. She is small now, but already able to get her fair share of food from the zebra-eating machines.

I decided to get just a single pair of blue rams, when I do find them. All I read is that they like to be in pairs, and nobody can seem to backup their statement when they say to keep them in trios (1m/2f or 2m/1f and why!).

There is a Petco about 40 minutes drive from me, I may try there in a few weeks. There is also a really nice cichlid fish store (have it bookmarked at work, but it came recommended on one of these cichlid forums) just over an hours drive my house, and I'm going to that town this Friday. If I can talk the wife into stopping there, maybe I can find a very nice pair to bring home.
 

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RobD

Medium Fish
#14
Jun 14, 2004
78
0
0
Mt. Pleasant, MI
www.cst.cmich.edu
#14
Last night I did the big 1-hour+ drive and visited the big fish store. After looking over the quarantine log, I decided the fish were safe to get. They arrived on the 24th, and 12 of the 25 had perished the first day. Without medication thru the 30th, there had but no other losses. Seems like the remaining batch were pretty stable.

I had them help me pick out a pair, or at least that I hope are a pair. They lost their color pretty quick, so it was hard to tell by the dot. The first one he picked out was extremely pale, but he said it was a female and it had a nice full tummy. The next one had some color to it, and he said it was male.

I got them home, and they were both ghost-white from the trip. I got them used to the water (the pH was the same, whew!) and introduced them to the tank. I fed the other fish, because the Julliis were begging for their shrimp pellets (they cluster in one corner of the tank where the food gets dropped).

Today, one of them has colored up a bit, at least to where I can see the dot and the spikes (dorsal fin has black on front going all the way to the tip, very "spikey"). The other one is pretty plain except for the faint dot. Is this paleness normal, especially for juveniles? They are about an inch in total length, still pretty small. On both of them, the black dot has some blue dots in them. I suspect I have two females that seem to be healthy.

They follow each other around, no real "leader". First feeding went well, they ignored the flakes but hunted the biospira I picked up (that is what they were used to being fed). Second feeding they learned the ropes and were at the top of the tank, but the zebras were too fast so down they went to eat off the bottom where the good stuff was at.

These are such nice fish, I wish I would have picked up four of them! Would it be smart to go back and get two more from the same batch? Or can I get some more later from a different batch, if necessary?
 

R

RobD

Medium Fish
#17
Jun 14, 2004
78
0
0
Mt. Pleasant, MI
www.cst.cmich.edu
#17
Help me sex these german blue rams?

Okay, now that I have them, can somebody help me sex them?

Here are some pictures:

Fish #1 on left, Fish #2 on right


Fish #1 on top, Fish #2 on bottom


Fish #1 on left, Fish #2 on right

When I bought them, I was told Fish #1 was the male and Fish #2 was the female. I'm pretty sure #2 is female, but #1 is giving me some doubts.
 

R

RobD

Medium Fish
#19
Jun 14, 2004
78
0
0
Mt. Pleasant, MI
www.cst.cmich.edu
#19
Hmm, that is what I was afraid of. They seem to like each other - they follow each other around and are rarely apart. Since exchanging is out of the question (I'm not driving an hour one-way), I'm faced with a choice.

1) Should I try to get 2 males later to go with them? I do run the risk of getting 1 or 2 females again - would that be really bad? Not sure if the germans are into harems like the aspistos.

2) I'm thinking of getting a pair or trio of borellii, since they seem to be another docile cichlid. If I increase the germans, I probably won't do this as it will load up the bottom pretty heavily (7 cory, 4 rams, 3 borellii). Would this be wiser than increasing the ram?

Remember, I'm not into breeding. Either way, I'll have to make the one-hour drive to Lansing. I stopped in to my LPS, and they have NO dwarf cichlids. And if they ever do (haven't had any in the last month), it would be germans and golds.

For you Michigan people, this is where I went: http://www.preusspets.com - the store was pretty amazing. Many, many tanks in very nice condition. I was there on a friday night, 9pm, and there were at least 5 employees in the fish area and customers galore. Just don't get Tim - apparently he can't sex the blue rams very accurately!
 

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