New to the forum, but i have a big problem with ammonia!

[Russ]

Hi. Im new to this forum and have been searching around for a few answers too, so hopefully someone can help me on here.
ive had my tank setup for about 2 months now. i have 3 platties, 1 molly, 3 guppies, 1 pleco, 2 cory cats and my platties have had about 16 babies too (hard to count).
ever since ive started this tank my ammonia levels have been very high.
the nitrate and nitrite levels are all ok.
the ph level drops to around 6 about 2 days after doing a water change.

im doing 10-20% water change a week and no more then 50% water change once a month.
ive lowered the amount i feed the fish and i vacuum gravel each time i change the water.

ive been using amo-shot in my filter and putting in prime conditioner every day. and im putting in aquarium salt each time i do a water change.
i have even upgraded my filter to a 30gal bio-wheel and bought live bacteria to try to help boost the bacteria levels and lower the ammonia.
none of this has been working.

so, my question is whats my next step to do?
i have the amo-shot out right now because their probably just soaking up the ammonia and not really helping at all in the long run.
obviously ive got to get rid of the baby fish, once they get a little bigger.
none of my fish have died and they all appear healthy and active!

but, what do you guys think?

thanks in advance!

 

[Greendragon1128]

Welcome to the tank!
It sounds like your tank hasn't cycled at all, perhaps becuase of the amo-shot. Read up on fish-in cycling. The bacteria you bought probably didn't do anything, unless the pet store had it refrigerated. I'm sure more experienced members will explain more about this.
For the baby platies, if you leave them loose in the tank, the adults will keep your population at a managable level. What you need to find a home for is the pleco. They get big and mean.
Btw, how big is your tank?

 

[Russ]

its a 20gal tank. sorry, forgot about that one haha.
yea, the pet store has already told me that if my fish get too big for my tank (ie the pleco) then they will take them off my hands for me.
my pleco is probably about 4 inch long right now.
the adult fish dont seem to be eating the babies from what ive noticed. the babies are getting big fast!

the live bacteria was on their shelf in the store, i got 30gal's worth of it.

i normally stick to lizards, so this is my first tank setup and i was going with what the pet store was telling me and the fish. its a single local store (not petsmart or anything), they seem to know what their talking about but their pretty much like just keep up with your water changes and the ammonia should come down sooner or later.

the substrate in the tank is a large gravel, so the new babies are hiding underneath there but the larger babies are swimming around with the adults now.

i did get my water tested today, since it has gained a yellow/greenish tint, and the ammonia was at its highest.....

 

[sombunya]

How big is your tank?

Also, does your local water utility use a "free chlorine residual" or "chloramines" to disinfect your water? If you don't know then call them. If the person that answers the phone doesn't know then demand to speak to someone who does. You see, Chloramines are formed by combining Chlorine and Ammonia. If you put chlorinated water in a bucket and let it sit outside for a day the chlorine will be gone. If you put chloraminated water in a bucket and let it sit outside the chlorine will dissipate and leave the ammonia behind. So it is important you find out how the water from your supplier is being disinfected.

Prime is good because it detoxifies any ammonia in the water. Your test kit will still read it but it will be much less toxic to your fish.

Keep doing water changes. It is my opinion that you can not do too many or too large of a water change, as long as you use PRIME to treat the water.

 

[sombunya]

Also, I had a 20 gallon that I cycled without adding bacteria. It was a "fish-in" cycle. I did 50% water changes every day. Sometimes 60-70%. It took almost three weeks. The fish were fresh water Sculpins, a very hardy fish. Not sure how tough yours are.

As long as the temperature is close, so you don't shock them, change as much as you like using properly treated water.
If you use PRIME, that would be 3 drops per gallon, out of an eyedropper.

 

[1077]

After two months, I would think the tank would have developed a bacteria population. Too many fish might cause the bacteria to be overworked so to speak. Also wondering if the filter may not be large enough for the tank and would be curious as to how often you clean the filter and how do you clean it? Filter material should be cleaned regularly by swishing the cartridge,pad,sponge,etc around in old aquarium water that you take out during water changes. Tapwater that contains chlorine or chloramines should not be used to clean the material for it will destroy the beneficial bacteria that is largely found in the filter. Water conditioner such as prime will detoxify ammonia for approx 24 hours which is plenty of time for beneficial bacteria to break down the ammonia. I am thinking the beneficial bacteria was destroyed somehow or test results are not accurate. Ammonia is quite toxic to fish and I would expect numerous dead fish with elevated ammonia for any extended length of time.

 

[stacic8679]

I think you should probably be doing water changes until you can get the ammonia level down. My ammonia level was at 6 and I did 25% water changes every day sometimes two or three times a day until I could get the ammonia down. Make sure you treat the water before you put it in the tank. Good luck

 

[seastaar88]

When you say that your ammonia was very high, what was the actual reading? What you might think is high might not be high afterall Also, what are the actual readings for nitrates and nitrites?

Here are my thoughts.

IMHO, the only thing you need in your filter is filter fiber. Forget the Amo-shot and forget the aquarium salt - both are unneccessary, and frankly, lead to problems easier than they "fix" them. Need to find the root cause. How much/how frequently are you feeding?

There's also no reason for a monthly 50% water change since you're already doing weekly 10-20% changes. Is there really that much "gunk" where you're gravel vac-ing each time? Might be overfeeding. I have sand and I just siphon along the top of it, as needed (like in the corners where things get trapped).

I also wouldn't bother adding prime every day. Add a chlorine/chloramine neutralizer to the water during water changes only.

If it's a new filter, you may be experiencing a mini cycle since there's no bacteria on the filter wheel yet.

 

[Russ]

the filter is a Penguin 150B Power Filter for 30 gallon tanks, mines a 20gal tank.
the bio-wheel is started to discolor, not sure if its bacteria or just how the water is hitting it.

i dont know what the numbers are on the chemicals. i have a ph test kit and its around 6.5 right now. the ammonia was dark green when i got it checked yesterday (which i think it has been the darkest yet) and the other 2 were an orange colour and a purple, i dont remember which one was which though.

but all the fish are doing ok. their all eating, none of them have died, all of the babies are very active. theres no signs of gill damage either.

feeding.....
i did over feed the fish when i first put them in until i realized about the ammonia levels.
i feed them about 2 pinches of fish flakes and crumble them up, 1-2 times a day.

it has crossed my mind a few times, about how much ammonia is already in the tap water. so i will be testing that at the pet store next time i go in.
the ph of the tap water is over 7, its a dark blue.

i took the amo-shot out about 2 weeks ago. i was recharging the the bag and putting it in my filter every time i would do a water change.

filter...
i clean the filter every time i do a water change... once a week. i do swill it around in the old aquarium water. it seems to get pretty dirty and full of green gunge. seems like it clogs up and then the bio-wheel stops spinning.

vacuum...
when i move the stones around there is alot of crap that starts to float up. the water will get VERY cloudy for about an hour or 2 until everything settles back down. i have taken all the big stuff out from when i over fed my fish with in the first couple of weeks of having them. when i move the stones around now, theres not alot of big chunks of waste, like uneaten food, anymore it just gets very cloudy.

lights....
all i have is a uva/uvb 5.0 full spectrum light running the length of the tank.

ive just put a plant in there too. a Undulatus..? basic water plant from the pet store. it seems to of taken to the light and the water, already has a bud up on the waters surface and the fish dont seem to be eating it either.

theres not much more i can think of right now...

i have been thinking about getting another tank, new gravel filter ect and letting it cylce without the fish and then transfer the fish into that tank.
i dont really want to do a second tank but this ammonia in the current tank is starting to get on my nerves lol.

i will take some pictures and post them up on here tonight so you can actually see the tank and whats in it/setup.

thanks for the reply's/help by the way!! much appreciated!!

 

[RexyTexel]

Just a quick tid bit. Leave your pH alone. Don't toy with it. The more you adjust it the more likely your fish will die. Stable pH is better than one flying all over the place. Don't let the people at the pet store try to sell you pH downs/ups. Frankly they can be a waste of money and time. Fish can be pretty adaptable and will do better if you just leave the pH alone and let them adjust. They'll be just as happy.

 

[homebunnyj]

You've been getting some very good advice in this thread. These people know their stuff.

There's only a couple of things I can add. One, get yourself an ammonia test kit -- the kind with the test tube and drops. Then post up your results. We'll advise you on how to get the ammonia under control once we know how bad it really is, in numbers.

In the meantime, do what everyone else has said -- get rid of the ammo stuff, quit monkeying with the ph if indeed you are doing so, do more frequent water changes due to being overstocked, shop for a bigger tank. When you get a bigger tank, post up and we'll tell you how to preserve the bacteria you have now and transfer it over to the new tank with the fish.

Two, I think you're still overfeeding. Once every two days is enough and will cut down on the pollution from the overcrowding. Also due to the overcrowding, step up your water changes to 25-50% twice a week until you get a bigger tank. This will help with keeping the detritus on the bottom under control, keeping the water parameters in check, and hopefully help keep your filter from gunking up so fast. You might consider running two filters on your tank if you continue to have so much trouble with your filter clogging. Really, there's no such thing as overfiltering, and you'd be a step ahead toward setting up a bigger tank.

 

[Ravenstar]

From having been there myself, ammonia is a pain in the butt to deal with! So is fish-in cycling. :3 Either way, it sounds like you're pouring WAY too many chemicals into your water to try and get rid of your ammonia. I use 1/4 tsp (enough for 2.5G of water) of Stress Coat in my water to neutralize ammonia, chlorine, and chloramines, and a little (1/2 TBSP or less) aquarium salt as a preventative anti-fungal agent, then I let the water sit for a while before adding it to my tank. I didn't have filters for a LONG time and my ammonia levels were through the roof even with water changes, but I read up on cycling and got filters and things started to come down.

Well I can't give you exact numbers, but the green tube is ammonia (and dark green means you're at least in the 4.0ppm area, it sounds like), purple is nitrites (it's good you're getting a solid purple), orange is nitrates (depending on how red the orange is, I'd recommend minor water changes to bring them down. If it's a nice amber, you're fine, those and the nitrites will help your ammonia levels). Don't fret with pH, just check to make sure it's stable, whatever it's at.

I actually have to disagree with the previous posts about swishing out the filter every time you change the water. I tried that and wasn't getting very far with my cycle. When I left mine completely alone, even though they turned a little brownish-green, my cycle started right up. I'd say unless your media being dirty is actually preventing your filter from working, only swish every couple of changes at most.

Vacuuming is great to keep ammonia down, keep it up. It might make it easier on your tank if you only feed every other day. That will cut down on the bio load and also help prevent swim bladder disease and constipation.

Your light sounds fine, though bear in mind that keeping it on often will help foster algae blooms (not too big a deal if you have algae eaters, but can be problematic for plants depending on the kind of algae you get).

I don't really have experience with plants, but it's good that things seem to be growing well!

I know it's frustrating, but you'll be better off working with this tank than spending tons of money on a whole new setup (unless the new setup is a great upgrade). It sounds like you're well on your way to being fully established, and especially if your fish seem fine, starting over could be too much of a shock for them.

Best of luck!