newbie: larger aquariums question

[kryten2001]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new here - just joined up today. I bought my son (5) his first fish tank, and I'm currently going through a fish-in cycle. I've got a 20gal tank with only a few Swordtails, so I'll wait to see some Nitrate before I introduce any more fish. So far it's 0/0/0 but it's only been a few days.

Anyway, the original idea was just to get him a semi-decent tank (i've got the filter, heater, test equipment - all the usual) - but I have to say I'm getting hooked. I'm already starting to think of epic aquarium projects for my home, as I love the mixture of science, maintenance/gear and art this hobby seems to bring!

My question is in relation to larger tanks however.

For owners of larger tanks, say 300-500 gallons, are you cycling your water in the same prescribed method as the smaller tanks? (i.e. 20% every 1-2 weeks?)....

If so this seems to me to be a lot of water being replaced each time (hundreds of litres).

If this is the case, and you are replacing 20% every 1-2 weeks, how do you deal with the pre-treatment of water issue? Do you literally have a few hundred litres worth of buckets of water you're treating 24 hours prior, then bring them up to temperature before dumping them in?

If we're talking a few hundred litres each time, that appears to me to be a monster effort. I presume you simply can't run water into the tank via a hose, otherwise the highly chlorinated water would kill all the good bacteria?

Anyway - hello to all - happy to be here. This forum appears to be a brilliant source of information sharing so I'm glad I found you all.

Cheers from down under (Australia).

 

[Thyra]

Welcome to the forum! I can't give you any advice about how to deal with a tank that large, but the one thing I can remind you about is the weight - you need to figure 10 -12 pounds per gallon (that includes the substrate) so you are dealing with well over a ton.

 

[exhumed07]

If properly done i would think as long as the tank was not overstocked water changes would not be that bad. the larger the tank the easier it is to care for. in comparison that 20 gallon u got for your son. If anything was to go wrong in the 20 it will do so in a big hurry. whereas the large tank things will go lot slower and is easier to head off and correct. and as for water quality that much water will take longer to go bad. and if u go with a planted tank water changes can be done even more sparingly as the plants will absorb most toxins in the water as well nitrates and phosphates. now i have no personal experience with a tank so large. Im basing this off of what i know of tanks up to 55 gallons that i have experience with.

 

[kryten2001]

Welcome to the forum! I can't give you any advice about how to deal with a tank that large, but the one thing I can remind you about is the weight - you need to figure 10 -12 pounds per gallon (that includes the substrate) so you are dealing with well over a ton.

Yes I've calculated about 1.2 ton of water, a few hundred kilos of tank, and another few hundred kilos of base etc. About 1.5-1.6 ton.

It's a lot of water which is why I'm not too keen on having to treat hundreds of litres of water each week in buckets before it is introduced into the tank.

If properly done i would think as long as the tank was not overstocked water changes would not be that bad. the larger the tank the easier it is to care for. in comparison that 20 gallon u got for your son. If anything was to go wrong in the 20 it will do so in a big hurry. whereas the large tank things will go lot slower and is easier to head off and correct. and as for water quality that much water will take longer to go bad. and if u go with a planted tank water changes can be done even more sparingly as the plants will absorb most toxins in the water as well nitrates and phosphates. now i have no personal experience with a tank so large. Im basing this off of what i know of tanks up to 55 gallons that i have experience with.

Yes. I think this is probably the right approach. Ignore the regimen of changing water weekly, change it when it needed it (ie when nitrates start to rise).

The main concern I have is with the introduction of tap water. If it's OK to do so then it's easy, I can feed a hose into the tank. It's the introduction of chlorinated water I'm the most worried about though. Our water has quite a bit of chlorine down here in Australia (You can smell it in the water).

Thanks guys.

 

[InfamousMob]

I would have to say adding tap water to fill your aquarium would be the best thing and the most economical way to do it. Just purchase a decent amount of dechlorinater and you should be just fine. I would say though if you are setting up an aquarium that big, it will be a lot easier to figure out how to cycle this thing with the proper fish.

In my personal opinion i find the best way to cycle an aquarium, large or small, is to add some decent hardy starter fish (giant danios) and wait out the 4-6 weeks while testing the water every week. Granted this is such a larger aquarium so you might not run into the same problems as someone who is cycling a ten gallon tank, but just be aware that adding any kind of fresh water fish to a brand new tank can be risky


but thats just me!

 

[kryten2001]

I would have to say adding tap water to fill your aquarium would be the best thing and the most economical way to do it. Just purchase a decent amount of dechlorinater and you should be just fine. I would say though if you are setting up an aquarium that big, it will be a lot easier to figure out how to cycle this thing with the proper fish.

In my personal opinion i find the best way to cycle an aquarium, large or small, is to add some decent hardy starter fish (giant danios) and wait out the 4-6 weeks while testing the water every week. Granted this is such a larger aquarium so you might not run into the same problems as someone who is cycling a ten gallon tank, but just be aware that adding any kind of fresh water fish to a brand new tank can be risky


but thats just me!

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I would use a similar approach to what I'm doing now - fish in - and would start with a very low load. Given the huge size of the tank, I might even augment it with small ammonia injections as well.

I've only got the 20gal tank now, but the principles should be the same I guess. The water changes were the ones that had me worried the most.

Cheers.

 

[InfamousMob]

ya see...ive been hearing that a lot. And through my own experience i feel that water changes seem to prolong or interrupt cycles...now thats just me and im sure plenty of the people on here have their own ideas on it. But i mean if you're planning on doing like a huge community tank...throw a couple dozen serpae tetras, lamp eye tetra, pristilla tetras, or heck even white clouds. Either one of these fish are relatively hardy (not quite like a danio), but you won't have to deal with 1) catching the danios 2) having a potentially aggressive tank mates

Usually adding a good amount of beneficial bacteria during the cycle can help as well. Try looking into Easy-Life "Easy Start". it seems to respond better than the typical Cycle stuff made by nutrifin. Or if you can get your hands on Microbe Life Bacteria for ponds, its concentrated, smells terrible, but works like a charm!

 

[kryten2001]

ya see...ive been hearing that a lot. And through my own experience i feel that water changes seem to prolong or interrupt cycles...now thats just me and im sure plenty of the people on here have their own ideas on it. But i mean if you're planning on doing like a huge community tank...throw a couple dozen serpae tetras, lamp eye tetra, pristilla tetras, or heck even white clouds. Either one of these fish are relatively hardy (not quite like a danio), but you won't have to deal with 1) catching the danios 2) having a potentially aggressive tank mates

Usually adding a good amount of beneficial bacteria during the cycle can help as well. Try looking into Easy-Life "Easy Start". it seems to respond better than the typical Cycle stuff made by nutrifin. Or if you can get your hands on Microbe Life Bacteria for ponds, its concentrated, smells terrible, but works like a charm!

Thanks.

The initial cycling isn't the part that worries me the most - it's more the logistics of dealing with so much water as you change out a certain percentage each week. That is, assuming you do need to change the water that often. My biggest concern is needing to be treat it prior to being introduced into the tank. So many buckets?

I guess water changes will be dictated by nitrate levels, rather than timing (of course I'll vacuum weekly etc). I might even be able to find a high-flow chlorine filter that can fit onto a tap so I can use a garden hose - instead of lots of massive buckets.

I plan to do this early next year sometime, after I've cut my teeth with looking after this little tank.

I had no idea this stuff could be so addictive. It seems like such a mundane hobby - until you get into it.. Then it's quite addictive.

Perhaps it's just my obsessive nature.

 

[InfamousMob]

I see plenty of people fall into the fish hobby trap...its okay! its a wonderful hobby!

My recommendations for the water change would be to, obviously make things easier for you! I know some of the maintenance guys i deal with will buy +30 gal trash cans with wheels and use that to get water to the tank. You can buy a decent size pump to use to circulate the water while its being treated than add a hose to it to fill from the bin to the tank. Id probably say itd be easier to have a very long hose to siphon the water from the tank to maybe your backyard (remember water from your tank (Freshwater of course) is a very healthy source of nutrients for your outdoor/indoor plants).

You could also get maybe a 50gal drum and keep in your garage or wherever you can store it. And than you can plumb a pump and some hosing to reach to your tank that way it can be treated and you don't have to carry a lot of buckets anymore.

I know a handful of people who will get a tank that big and plumb the tank to have a drain and a fill line. Drain line goes outside or plumbed into their sewage. Fill line could be hooked up to a commercial carbon filter you can get for the house!

The choice is yours!

 

[kryten2001]

I see plenty of people fall into the fish hobby trap...its okay! its a wonderful hobby!

My recommendations for the water change would be to, obviously make things easier for you! I know some of the maintenance guys i deal with will buy +30 gal trash cans with wheels and use that to get water to the tank. You can buy a decent size pump to use to circulate the water while its being treated than add a hose to it to fill from the bin to the tank. Id probably say itd be easier to have a very long hose to siphon the water from the tank to maybe your backyard (remember water from your tank (Freshwater of course) is a very healthy source of nutrients for your outdoor/indoor plants).

You could also get maybe a 50gal drum and keep in your garage or wherever you can store it. And than you can plumb a pump and some hosing to reach to your tank that way it can be treated and you don't have to carry a lot of buckets anymore.

I know a handful of people who will get a tank that big and plumb the tank to have a drain and a fill line. Drain line goes outside or plumbed into their sewage. Fill line could be hooked up to a commercial carbon filter you can get for the house!

The choice is yours!

Hmm now that's not a bad idea at all. A storage tank for water pre-treatment with a pump.

That actually makes a lot of sense, as I happen to have a completely unused fresh rainwater tank attached to my house that I don't even use... Sounds like the perfect use for it!!!!

Thanks very much, I'll look into it. Once I get started I'll be sure to post my adventure!

 

[exhumed07]

look forward to hearing about it how everything turns out

 

[lauraf]

You can also buy something called a python. It attaches to your house sink at one end and you can empty a certain amount of water from your tank directly into the sink. Reverse the flow, and the tap water flows directly into the tank. While this is happening, you add dechlor into the tank to treat the water as it is going in. Many people use pythons for large tanks - no buckets!

Meanwhile, how's the current tank?

 

[exhumed07]

thats more or less how i put my water in my tank except i bought a hose and chopped it up and used connectors to hook it up to a hot and cold water spicket that i plumbed into the house. but i have well water so no treating the water. i always thought with city water u had to treat it before ever putting it into the tank. but i may be wrong.

 

[skjl47]

thats more or less how i put my water in my tank except i bought a hose and chopped it up and used connectors to hook it up to a hot and cold water spicket that i plumbed into the house. but i have well water so no treating the water. i always thought with city water u had to treat it before ever putting it into the tank. but i may be wrong.

Hello; It depends. Some public water has chemicals added that apparently require the use of a treatment chemical by the hobbyist. Other public water companies, including the one I use, only treat with chlorine. I am able to store the tap water in containers for a few days and then can use it in my tanks. The chlorine becomes inert with such storage. I have been doing this for well over twenty years.
I also have the advantage of generally smaller temperature differentials and a large source of emergency drinking water on hand.

The tap water treated with chloramines is a different story. It is my understanding that such chemical additives do not become inert with storage and must be neutralized with an additional treatment before use in an aquarium.

I checked with my current water company when moving a couple of years ago. In talking with the plant engineer I found that chlorine is the only treatment chemical used. They also had a printout available that listed the measured water parameters and treatment. I receive a letter once a year showing the current water status. The engineer also assured me that notice of any changes in the treatment plan will be made public and is required by our laws. He also stated that such changes are unlikely.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; To the OP. Is the question about water changes in big tanks more along the lines of how to handle the amount of water or perhaps a concern about having to use such large volumes of water?
I note that you are from Australia and suspect there may be areas where water availability or cost could be a concern.

 

[exhumed07]

well by always i ment if there is chlorine that the water had to be treated prior to being put into the tank, not treating as u add water to the tank via a hose straight from the tap.

also i forgot that southern austrailia has gone about 8 years without rain and all the rivers are drying up. so water cost could come into affect more so then other parts of the country/continent

 

[skjl47]

well by always i ment if there is chlorine that the water had to be treated prior to being put into the tank, not treating as u add water to the tank via a hose straight from the tap.

also i forgot that southern austrailia has gone about 8 years without rain and all the rivers are drying up. so water cost could come into affect more so then other parts of the country/continent

Hello; My understanding is when adding tap water with only chlorine or water with chlorine and chloramines directly to a tank from the tap, that in both cases the water should be treated at that time to chemically control the chlorine. Because in this case there is no sitting/storage time to allow the chlorine to become inert.

 

[kryten2001]

Hello; To the OP. Is the question about water changes in big tanks more along the lines of how to handle the amount of water or perhaps a concern about having to use such large volumes of water?
I note that you are from Australia and suspect there may be areas where water availability or cost could be a concern.

Hi there.

No, my concern was with the treatment of water going back into the tank. Getting water out is easy, syphon into the garden (vacuuming as I go). My concern is getting water back in when dealing with such large volumes.

The concerns are twofold -

First, temperature. The water that comes out of our taps down here (at least in my area) is VERY cold. Typically 15 degrees C or lower. When introducing, there might be a shock..

Secondly, and more importantly, chlorine. Our scheme water down here has a lot of chlorine in it (so much you can easily smell it), and I'm worried this might kill the friendly bacteria.

Both of these concerns can be overcome if you store and treat your water in large buckets etc. But given I'm talking about such a large tank, this is a LOT of water and will be a real PITA to change out every few weeks.

An external container (water tank) might be the only way to go, but that's also a real pain to deal with....

Original tank going very well. Still early in the cycle (10 days), and only showing up 0.25ppm ammonia at this stage. No Nitrite or Nitrate just yet.

Cheers.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

I would think, even with a very large tank, that doing a 20-30g change every 2-3 weeks would be just fine unless the tank was overstocked (which honestly doesn't look as appealing or relaxing anyways). The amount of pollution you get in a 30g tank is going to be much more than what accumulates in a 300g tank. A tank that large is more able to regulate itself. More so if you have any live plants in there that will utilize the fish waste as nutrients.

If the water is bad enough can smell the chlorine I would be apprehensive to just put it directly in the tank at the same time as the dechlorinator and hope it is neutralized instantly. But you should be able to get a "brute" trash can (or the Australian equivalent ) specifically designed strong enough to hold 30g of water, and a heater to make sure it's the right temp, to hold water for the water changes. Maybe 2 heaters if you want to use the water soon and it comes out real chilly...

You could do water changes with just pumps as has been suggested - get a tube or something that can go on a faucet and fill the 30g barrel. Use a siphon or pump to drain water out of the tank - either into another separate barrel or out the window into the garden, as long as it's not dropping far enough to make a muddy splashy mess), (this is actually great for plants because it has natural fish waste as a fertilizer!), then pump the dechlorinated water from the first barrel into the fish tank.