Newbie to the salt water world wants to do it right

intendedaccel · Jul 22, 2003

Hello all, this is my first post on the forum!

Anyhow currently I have a 55 gallon tank that is set up for freshwater. I currently have 3 pacu's in it that are quickly outgrowing the tank thanks to the fish store giving me mis-information. Just goes to show that you have to do your own research to really do something right. Anyhow, since I have to get rid of my fish anyhow, I would like to switch to saltwater.

I will be the first to admit that I don't know everything I should about freshwater tanks even, but I want to do this the right way from the beginning. Here's what I currently have.

55 rectangle shaped glass tank
Wood base for tank
Hood with I believe only one long tube light (IIRC)
Whisper 3 power filter
UGF with two penguin power heads
Some sort of thermostatically controlled heater

I have read that for this size tank that the UUGF is more trouble than it is worth, so I plan on taking that out when I do the switch. Will I need a different power filter for saltwater, and will I need any additional sort of filtering? Remember, I wasnt to do this the right way, so please recommend whatever you think will be the best, even if it involves replacing everything I currently have.

Also what will I need as far as chemicals, testing equipment, rocks, salt? Remember I have NONE of this stuff and am a complete newbie, and have probably been misinformed by my local aquarium store (as evidenced by selling 3 pacus to someone with a 55 gallon tank).

Also I would like a nice list of fish to stock this aquarium with....cheap, robust, and easy to care for are priorities here.

Thank you so much in advance!!!!

jaws2 · Jul 22, 2003

o dear you need 3 WPG for live rock then you need a protien skimmer. then you need differnt gravel. then you can listen to evryone else on the board

jaws2 · Jul 22, 2003

by the way welcome to the board

intendedaccel · Jul 22, 2003

I knew I would need new gravel, forgot to list that. Is there a special kind for salt water? What about sand as an option.

What does 3 WPG mean? What exactly does a protein skimmer do, and can you recommend any for my size tank? Thanks!

BrianH · Jul 22, 2003

I would suggest buying "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner. Read it first. This way you'll have a good knowledge base to begin with.

Brian

intendedaccel · Jul 22, 2003

Originally posted by BrianH
I would suggest buying "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner. Read it first. This way you'll have a good knowledge base to begin with.

Brian

Thanks for the tip!

jaws2 · Jul 22, 2003

3 WPG means 3 watts per gallon i think the sea clone is a perfect skimmer the skimmers job is to remove the protien wich is alwatys in a saltwater tank you need salt not regulare salt but the best kind is at your LFS i like red sea salt!!!!!

JasonF · Jul 23, 2003

Ok, to get salt water you add a marine salt to the water. Some people use RO (Reverse Osmosis) water, which has most chemicals (Nitrates, phosphates, Silica etc.) removed from it. My tap water is pretty good so I use it.

Tests you will need are Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, PH (8.2-3), Specific Gravity (1.023-1.026), Phosphate, Oxygen.

Will you keep a Fish Only system?

You will need a protein skimmer (the bigger the better, these pump air into a venturi and scum forms in a cup to be removed, and they also aerate the water), uprated lighting system - Metal Halides are the favorites (you need lighting of 6500k or so at least to keep marines happy). Filter, get the best you can, a lot of people use Live Rock and a Deep Sand Bed as natural filtration.

The tank water will still need to cycle before you put fish in.

Clowns are quite hardy, damsels are hardy, but aggressive, so not to be recommended IMO. A good book will tell you.

Best advice is get a couple of books, I have The Marine Aquarium which is quite good, and The Marine Aquarium (Nick Dakin) but there are many good books out there, better than these...... and never take just one persons opinion for anything, because no matter what one person says, others will disagree.. Best to get a few peoples opinions of how/why they do something and decide what is best for you I have found.

Good luck, and keep asking questions.

intendedaccel · Jul 23, 2003

We have a Multi Pure under counter solid carbon block filter, which has been tested to remove the following:

Code:

more than 99% Chlorine
more than 97% Chloramine
more than 99% Lead
more than 99.9% Cysts (Cryptosporidium, Giardia, Entamoeba, Toxoplasma)
more than 98% 2,4-D
more than 99.8% Chloroform (TTHM)
more than 99% Silvex
more than 99% Asbestos
more than 97% Atrazine
more than 99% Ethlyene Dibromide (EDB)
more than 96.6% MTBE
more than 99% Styrene (vinylbenzene)
more than 99% Xylenes
more than 99% of many other VOC's, like Benzene, as well as many Insecticides,
Herbicides, Chemical contaminants, Fertilizers and Petroleum Products.

Do you think that this is "Close-enough" to pure to negate the need of chemicals to remove chlorene and other toxins?

I figured as such. Is there any instruments availible that make the testing of the above things easier and more accurate? Can you recommend any certain testing kits?

I would like to also have some corral and live plants if possible.

Can you recommend any certain brand or models of protein skimmers? The woman at the fish store last night didn't even know what one was when I asked about it.

Does this involve simply changing my bulbs in the hood I currently have, or is this more involved?

Again, can you recommend any particular makes/models of filters? I plan on using a sand bottom on the tank if that makes a difference. Keep in mind I would rather spend more money up front to get EXACTLY what I need to to get the best water quality.

I ordered two books off of amazon yesterday.

Code:

The New Marine Aquarium: Step-By-Step Setup & Stocking Guide by Michael S. Paletta

and:

Saltwater Aquariums For Dummies® by Gregory Skomal

Hopefully these arrive soon and can answer some of my more basic questions.

Thank you SOOOO much for your help. My fish will thank you too!

JasonF · Jul 23, 2003

Ok, that water purifier sounds pretty damn good.. The strange thing with marine is now you get some additives to put some of it back in again

.. Some of the marine salts also claim to neutralise Chlorine, but I add dechlorinator anyways....

If money is no object then there are electronic gadgets to do some tests for you (PH/SG). I use Aquarium Solutions test kits, which are ok. To be frank though I am crap at guessing colours, so none of them are much cop to me ! I get the other half to verify each one I do...

If your fish store doesn't know what a skimmer is then it may be a good idea to find a marine store near you, and get a fair bit of stuff from them, and they may be quite nice and give you lots of advice over the phone too...

Some online shops for you to take a peek at

http://www.aquatics-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/aquarium_supplies_MARINE_122.html

http://www.aqualink.com/marine/begin.html

I am sure there will be much better (cheaper !!) ones stateside..

For a skimmer I have a Seaclone, but have been told Deltec, or Aquamedic would be better. And always get one bigger than your tank....You cannot overskim.

Metal Halides involve a lighting rig suspended (again, many makes available, I don't know which is good as I don't have it, hopefully someone will advise you) from the ceiling as a rule, however it is possible to use Arcadia (or whatever) Tubes and put Marine bulbs in. That is what I have in the roof of my tank, a bit more aesthetically pleasing, though not as good to try and grow hard corals.. Also get a reflector for each tube. The books will explain this far better than I will, with what light range/power you will need, and whether or not to get a marine blue actinic (I use it to start up so the animals won't be as stressed as sudden daylight appearing).

For filters as I said, most appear to be using Live Rock and/or a DSB, I personally have a trickle filter in a sump with Alphagrog to maintain a biological filter, then just some filter media which the water must flow through to pick up detritus. A biological filter seems to be the way most go, I guess it is up to you which way you go, or do what I am doing and using a bit of both?!? Eheim appear to make good filters for mechanical filtration. Undergravel filters are not as popular anymore to my knowledge..

To keep coral etc.. then it becomes a whole new ballgame with kalkwasser perhaps required, certainly some form of calcium, and good lighting etc...

Once the books arrive I am sure you will read them cover to cover, they will surely help you make some decisions.

There are also quite a few Reefkeeper type websites out there (ultimatereef etc..) with plenty of people far far far better qualified to answer these questions than I am...

But I would definately try and find a shop nearby with marine fish to get help from, as face to face explanations are great and if they help with the setup they will also be able to help with any pitfalls... Plus if you buy stock from one place it is easy to ID where any disease came from (that is the principal I am working on anyways)...

I am only really telling you what people have told me/what I have read as I am only in my first tank cycle !!! Hence my lack of fantastic advice, I do hope others here give you the benefit of a lot more experience...

Oh yes, also draw up a fish stock plan, and only get fish on that plan, do not buy on impulse.

JasonF · Jul 23, 2003

http://petsforum.com/fishnchips/sitemain.html

That site had odds and sods which may help, reviews, and lots of shops etc.. to get the stuff from.

jean1940 · Jul 23, 2003

new tank

having all of the online info available- ck out foster&smith website for fish & other info. they seem to have some good ideas- then go to your local store. least you will have some idea on prices, fish compatibility, etc. i have found them very helpful.

intendedaccel · Jul 23, 2003

Thank you all for your help, I appreciate it very much!

sinasster · Jul 23, 2003

This is all good advice but consider one thing.. when all is said and done, salt water tanks costs around $30 a gallon. So your tank will have cost you around $1650... Thats alot of money to invest in your $200 freshwater tank..... So i would HIGHLY recommend getting a tank designed for saltwater. With built in overflows. Get a big-as-you-can-fit sump to go underneth and think big. Cause the bigger the better. Most salt water fish get big and need a bigger tank.... And the fish that do stay small are usually reef safe.. but if you decide upon a reef than you really need good equipment... And this supports the advice of starting off with the right equipment..... including the tank!! Make sence??? just something to think about.

Also if available in your area i recommend buying ocean water. (here in CA we have "catalina water" available for around 65cents a gallon)

intendedaccel · Jul 24, 2003

Originally posted by sinasster
This is all good advice but consider one thing.. when all is said and done, salt water tanks costs around $30 a gallon. So your tank will have cost you around $1650... Thats alot of money to invest in your $200 freshwater tank..... So i would HIGHLY recommend getting a tank designed for saltwater. With built in overflows. Get a big-as-you-can-fit sump to go underneth and think big. Cause the bigger the better. Most salt water fish get big and need a bigger tank.... And the fish that do stay small are usually reef safe.. but if you decide upon a reef than you really need good equipment... And this supports the advice of starting off with the right equipment..... including the tank!! Make sence??? just something to think about.

Also if available in your area i recommend buying ocean water. (here in CA we have "catalina water" available for around 65cents a gallon)

I guess I didn't realize there is a difference in the tank itself for a saltwater setup. Also your estimate seems REALLY high, but I could and probably am wrong. Where does all the cost come in?

BrianH · Jul 24, 2003

intendedaccel,

Read your books before you begin purchasing equipment(I've heard good things about the Paletta book but never read it myself).
Also check out some more websites. (try
reefcentral It seems that you want to go about doing this right so make sure you know what you want before starting the tank. While this is an expensive hobby, you should be able to convert your 55gal to REEF for between 800 to 1,200. In order to keep this amount on the lower side, do the research before you begin.

Brian

JasonF · Jul 24, 2003

You can get skimmers and filters which hang on the side of any tank...

Or perhaps get the tank drilled to get the water to flow into a sump which can house a skimmer/filter etc.. and keep the tank looking pretty..

sinasster · Jul 24, 2003

My estimate may seem high but if you do get the cheap skimmers and overflows, The first thing you will want to upgrade when you become more informed and skilled at salt water is those cheap moneysaving items.... that ultimatley end up costing you more cause you wasted your initial money on them. (of course people who say their good just dont know any better... and i too use a seaclone skimmer... and that is the next thing to go, cause it really does suck)

As for the tank.. salt tanks have the overflows built in the corners, than are plumbed into the sump below. some have a complete wet/dry built into the back glass. I prefer the sump below. With most typical stands the stand is usually narrow compared to the tank making it hard to fit the sump. so you want a nice fat stand.

55 gallon.....
Tank with overflows.. $250-$300
stand $200
Canopy $150
wet/dry filter $100-$200
Lights $100-$300 (many options here)
Protein skimmer $150-$250
heater $30
return pump $50-$200 (submersible or external)
75lbs live rock $400 (rough estimate)
30 lbs sand $20 (another rough estimate)

total $1450

and thats still with no fish or inverts..

these numbers are random... but they are very realistic... you can do it for less and definatly for more, and im sure you already have some of what you need. but it all adds up... FAST. even if you calculate the total cost of your fresh water tank... that adds up too.

You can easily build up your current tank, cause you dont need all the fancy equipment to cycle. And just add to it as you can afford it. Just remember your numbers will add up once your tank is actually complete

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