Nitrate Levels

[setarris]

Correct me if I'm wrong, or preferably fill me in on what part I'm missing ok?
As I understand it; with a new tank ammonia builds, bacteria builds to counteract it, it then changes into nitrite, then to nitarte. So good so far?
Ok heres the question arriving from the above understanding, Nitrate levels would indicate the point on the ammonia cycle and how far till reaching a bacterial balance?

 

[ronrca]

Re: Nitarte Levels

When the ammonia levels and nitrite levels are zero, the cycle is complete (unless there is nothing to convert into ammonia ie fish poop). Nitrate will go rise. If you notice that after weekly water changes the nitrate keeps coming back up, you know the cycle is working. Pretty simple!  *thumbsupsmiley*

 

[JWright]

Re: Nitarte Levels

Nitrate won't necessarily indicate the cycle progress. Since the initial ammonia levels are different for every cycle, the resultant nitrate levels will also be different. It's possible to have a tank complete a cycle with 20 ppm or 200 ppm, there's no set rule.

As ronrca said, you know your tank is cycled when you see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and some nitrate.

Josh

 

[setarris]

Re: Nitarte Levels

Great thanks for the response. This is my second tank, my first was a 10 gal used tank given to me by a friend. The ammonia cycle went quickly with no problems or loss of fish. This tank I am starting now is a new 20 gal. But it is slower to cycle and I have lost 1 fish. The ammonia readings are remaining high, (3 weeks since first 5 fish added), and the nitrite and nitrate are still at zero. I realize the size will affect the time to cycle, but I wonder if two other things may make a difference here as well.
1: The old tank had a used filter, although I put 2 new bags in (left the old sponge) I wonder if the old filter helped build the good bacteria more quickly?
2: With the new tank I purchased a "Bio Wheel" filter and wonder with it's design if it would be slower to build the good bacteria and less capable to actually filter. The thin and small sized filter material and smaller amount of charcoal seem so much smaller then the old system?

 

[Matt Nace]

Re: Nitarte Levels

1) yes it did

2) The bio wheeel wont change how fast the bacteria develop and then multiply. The bio-wheel will hold a lot of bacteris(more so than a sponge) and the thing is you never have to touch the bio-wheel, leaving the bacteria undisturbed.

The bad about bio-wheels is if you get lazy on your filter cleanning, they can stop spinning or the water can bypass and not have them spin.But that usually doesn't happen.

You should get some seeded filter media or gravel from an established tank. This will help speed the cycle some.

If your ammonia levels are high..you must do a water change. It will take longer to cycle, but your fish will not suffer as much and they will have less of a chance of dieing. Same for nitrItes, only they kill at lower levels.(nitrItes block the blood from carring O2)

Also try not to touch the filter(where a lot of the bacteria is developing), and feed very sparingly (to decrease on another source of ammonia, decaying food).
HTH

 

[setarris]

Re: Nitarte Levels

MaleRubyBarb... you said:
"You should get some seeded filter media or gravel from an established tank. This will help speed the cycle some. "

Once this tank gets established I want to get one for another room. When you say "seeded gravel from another tank" I was wondering how much. What I thought I would try is to put a glass container (about a mug size) with gravel in it, in this tank, once established, for about a month or so and then use it in the new tank for a fishless ammonia cycle. Think it will work? Is a mug enough gravel? Any thing I'm not aware of with this idea?
Or what about a sponge just set in the old tank for a month? Or longer, shorter?

You also said: "Also try not to touch the filter(where a lot of the bacteria is developing), and feed very sparingly (to decrease on another source of ammonia, decaying food).
HTH "

The filter or wheel? Should I not be rinsing the filter weekly?

 

[Matt Nace]

Bacteria is everywhere in the tank. The best place is your filter as your water flow through whatever is in there. Do you have room to put it in a nylon bag(pantyhose sock)in your filter ot near the output?

I think it would be a better place, but a mug full spread out thinner would be ok as well. You could also simply borrow some gravel from your existing tank, put it in the filter, than put it back.

 

[setarris]

"You could also simply borrow some gravel from your existing tank, put it in the filter, than put it back."

Put it in the NEW filter, For how long?

 

[JWright]

Until it's done cycling.

Josh

 

[colesea]

What biofilter do you have? In the duel bio-wheel filters, if you can find someone that also has one, see if they won't switch a bio-wheel with you.  Or see if someone with a duel bio-wheel won't mind giving one up for a new one. That's what I did with my tanks. I took the old bio-wheel and put it on the new filter, and put the new bio-wheel on the established tank. I wasn't too worried about the old tank re-cycling because of the biowheel loss since the fish population was only three at the time.
~~Colesea

 

[Matt Nace]

Cole,

It is funny you bring that suggestion up.
Without getting too into it...we had quite a debate about doing that, and would it be considered an instant cycle(if the bio-wheel did have enough bacteria to cover the fishload)

It kinda looks like it would...but a lot of people(including at different boards said it isn't. (we actually had someone quit the messageboard over this arguement)(no flaming please!)

So is it an instant cycle(enough bacteria to convert all ammonia to nitrIte and then to nitrAte instantly) with the filter being established only?..or do you need the entire tank to do this?
hmmm.....

 

[JWright]

Whether or not it's an "instant cycle" depends on the specifics of each situation. If you're takign a bio-wheel of a 120 with a heavy fish load and putting it into a 29 with a light load then it will be "instant" but if it's reversed, then it won't be.

In any case though, it's a great way to seed a tank, but I would still fishless cycle just to check.

Josh

 

[colesea]

Yeah, I would have to agree with Josh on this one.

Actually, the funny thing is, Marineland claims that it's pre-cultured biowheels are instant cycling. I have MaRS systems at work, with industrial sized biowheels. The day we installed the bioweels was the same day we stocked the systems, not more than an hour afterwards. I was not happy with this because I am personally wary of anything "instant."  I would've thought we could've let the systems run at least 24hrs with the biowheels installed so that the bacteria that got washed off the wheel would have a chance to settle thoughtout the sytstem and start the cycling of the individual tanks as well. One biowheel on 200 gallons of water does not strike me as most effiecent in the way of biological filtering.

I wasn't able to do any chemical testing, but I did not loose a single fish during that initial stocking phase (which was a hell of a lot of fish let me tell you) from anything that appeared to be ammonia/nitrite posioning. Nor did the system crash in any form of ammonia/nitrite spike. So I assume that Marineland claims are founded, their pre-cultured industrial biowheels are "instant" cycling.

I have also found, on the industrual level that is, if I do an industrial size water change or major systemic gravel vac, the systems do get the "new tank sysndrome" cloudy. It usually clears up after 24hrs, and I haven't witnessed major crashes due to ammonia/nitrite spikes. The only time I get major systemic crashes is from nitrate overload and brown algae build up. I can tell a nitrate crash will occure because I'll have sudden algae growth in 24hrs of cleaning it off, as well a major snail population crash, even if the fish show no signs of illness.  This occures usually if I don't do a water change after four months or so. The biowheels seem very effcient. When I do do ammonia/nitrite checks, they're always zero, but nitrates are always waverying near danger levels.

From this I've concluded that the biowheel bacterial population probably waxes and wanes with various chemical processes in the tank. As far as home aquariua biowheels, I would still reccommend monitoring ammonia/nitrites and not assume anything is "instant."  An older, precultured biowheel is a good way to jump start a cycle, espeically for those people who "have to have fish" right away, but not an excuse to over populate a newly set up tank.
~~Colesea