Nitrate/Nitrate Please help

[papyrus]

The blood parrots really pump out the waste,the tank is a 20 gall.We do not have the money for a new tank at this time as I spent a fortune on this setup in current use.This 20 gallon has a penguin 200/50gall.and a whisper power30/60gall.two air bars that span the back of the tank,Lots of aeration,I am using aquarium salt as well as stresszyme .The tank is clear ,the parrots are eating and active,Yet The water test kit ,as well as the 5 in one strips indicate VERY high levels of trate and trite.I have noticed the levels dropping could it be cycling and how long does this process take. I am also thinking perhaps less is more with cichlids.Perhaps removing some of the ornamental goo-gahs would help facilitate gravel vacuum.Please,whatever pearls you can throw in this swines' direction*twirlysmi -D

 

[Big Vine]

You think it might still be cycling?! Wow.
How long has the tank been up and running with the fish in it?

If it is cycled, it should not have any nitrItes whatsoever.
You just have a pair of BP's in there, right? How often do you do water-changes, and how much each time? High nitrAtes could be possible in a cycled tank, but with regular WC's I don't see any reason for them to be particularly elevated. Just how big are the fish you've got in there? Is it a 20 gallon long?

BV

 

[Fuzz16]

i dont know why you would have aquarium salt in there. i advise against using it anymore...
leave the ornaments there...thier fine.
do a water change...help lower your nitrates.
and make sure you do use water declhrloinator. the stuff in water can easily kill your fish.

 

[papyrus]

Thanks Vine,It is not a long tank.It holds 3 bp's each about 4",and three raphael cats one large ,amedium,and a tiny one.Could the bio-foam pads in the whisper be the problem while I have changed the cartridges in the filter,I have not touched the bio pads thinking it is best not to.The penguin has just been running for a week, the tank was set up late february.However the gravel cleaner/siphon I was using was not big enough or strong enough to really go deep to clean the gravel.I bought a good one and removed alot of waste that had sifted down.I'm sure there is more to go.Should I just get in there and siphon it again at a 50% change?I did it four days ago and have been doing 15 and 20% changes since.Just keep on until the levels drop?-D

 

[papyrus]

I have used salt often over the years and never had any problem with it.The water is extremely soft and of course I treat tap water before adding it to the tank.I had a lovely tank many years ago,I mention in my intro.I have had Bettas in the interim and they like a little salt.I use it in moderation and for specific reasons.To reduce Nitrite,it is recommended to change 25% and use either aq.salt or nitrite ion exchange resin.Thanks for the response!-D

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Since the levels spiked and are dropping it could very well be coming out of the cycle. I'd watch it over the next few days and see if the levels drop futher.

I'm surprised you don't have an ammonia problem in there. Tank is horribly overstocked IMO.

 

[papyrus]

There is no ammonia problem.I was suprised too.The nitrite is 2.0 the nitrate is 10.The high range P.H.is 8.0 .The fish are appear healthy ,the tank is well aerated.The water clear.I just did a 50% change this evening and placed a nitra- zorb pad inthe whisper.Also replaced the other cartridge.Should I rinse the bio-foam in the whisper or leave them alone?I was mis-informed at the store where I purchased my tank,they assured me a 20 gall.would be big enough.I also asked the same question at Petco when I purchased the fish,although I was delighted with the cleanliness and health of the fish I was mis-informed as to the adequacy of the tank from this seller as well.It was never my intention to overstock.I am being vigilant in my care while I scout an affordable 55 gall.Again I have TWO large Filters going for this 20 gall.One is a whisper power filter30/60 gall.The other ,the newest is a Penguin 200 bio-wheel 50 gall.I was not pleased to be misinformed.The extra money to do it right the first time would have been worth every penny.You can imagine my dismay.-D

 

[papyrus]

Since the levels spiked and are dropping it could very well be coming out of the cycle. I'd watch it over the next few days and see if the levels drop futher.

I'm surprised you don't have an ammonia problem in there. Tank is horribly overstocked IMO.

Thanks Matt,The levels were normal for the first few weeks after the setup.Initially,It ran for several days without fish and as levels tested safe, I added them,I continued testing on a 3 day basis.These high levels are this past week,and I believe a result of inadequate gravel vacuum.I am being vigilant on checking levels.I am also lightly feeding at this time. BTW ,S.C. is such a lovely State .Best golfing in the world IMO.*SUNSMILE*

 

[Big Vine]

So, in other words, your tank is still cycling.
May not hurt to re-visit the stickies on cycling to make sure you're doing what you can throughout this process to provide your fish with the best chance at pulling through.

Sounds like the going is rough for them at the moment, but it also sounds like they've overcome the worst of the cycling process. If I were you I'd leave things alone as long as the nitrItes remain below 2.0 PPM. The beneficial bacteria need time to colonize adequately in order to convert it into nitrAtes. This is where things get tricky, because doing too many water changes actually ends up robbing the beneficial bacterial colonization (i.e. colonization of the bacteria responsible for converting nitrItes into less-harmful nitrAtes) of the toxins (i.e. in the form of nitrItes) that they need in order to establish their presence.

Hope that makes sense.
EDIT: I just re-read what I wrote, and it's not very well-articulated. Best head over to the sticky post on cycling! lol

BV

 

[papyrus]

Vine,You do make sense.Thank you so much.I have added stress zyme with the changes and have not changed the bio-pads in the whisper that harbor the colonies (hopefully)of good bacteria.There has been nothing unusual in the behavior of the fish and hopefully we will see levels stabilize.I''ll check the stickies-D

 

[FroggyFox]

Hey just one thing to add...using strip tests can sometimes be very inaccurate because they can give you a false positive if the levels of nitrite/nitrate are really high. I would save a little money and invest in some drop liquid test kits, at least the one for nitrate because you'll use that one even when your tank isn't cycling. In a tank with fish in it, I would be doing as many water changes as it took to keep my nitrates below 20ppm (assuming there are not high nitrates in your tap water).

 

[papyrus]

Thanx Froggy,I was hesitant at first to buy the API test kit-40$.But I went ahead any way.I am pleased with the results the expensive kit has provided .I am now comparing results using both. Honestly, I have tested the 20 gall.B.P tank, A.C.frogs' tank,The betta bowl ,and the baby lionhead tank ,as well as the house tap water and the results ,shown on the "5 in One "test strips by Jungle ,are accurate.They show differences in the waters of all mentioned.There are NO nitrites or nitrates in the tap water I am using to partial change the tanks.The 20 gall.is showing nitrites dropping from 5.0 to 2.0.No ammonia.The nitrates have risen from5.0 to 10.I have moved the nitra zorb pad from the whisper to the penguin where water flow is stronger.I have been told undergravel is the way to go ,is this true?I have also heard undergrav.with cichlids is not a good idea but the substrate is large pebbles (not gravel )which they have not been shoveling,yet......Should I spend the money for an undergravel?-D

 

[FroggyFox]

as long as the nitrates are under about 20, most fish will be fine. Some are sensitive and need it as close to 0 as possible...but usually they're fine. Since water changes are the best way to lower nitrates (esp since your tap water has none) you really don't need any 'magical' things to take them away. I'd hang on to that nitrazorb pouch for an emergency of some kind, although if you keep up with maintenance you really shouldn't ever have a nitrate emergency

Undergravel filters are kind of a thing of the past...these days power filters are economical enough that they are the best thing to use. I love canister filters for their ease of use, but I also have a few HOB's and really like the aquaclear I have on my 10. Any tank over about 20 gallons I'd prefer to use a canister on.

Many cichlids like an smaller gravel or sand base because they like to move the substrate around, but its not completely necessary.

If the nitrites are dropping in the 20 (and I'm guessing thats the one we're talking about that's cycling right?) then that is great, stay on top of the water changes and it sounds like its in the homestretch for cycling. All of those nitrites are converting to nitrates, which would explain the rising nitrates that you're seeing.

 

[papyrus]

Thanx Froggy,The fish have been great.They have been eating fine and are very healthy,Gills and fins are in fine shape,waste produced is normal in appearance.Iam watching the feeding so that uneaten food does not accumulate.The little cats do a good job of cleaning up and I put in an algae wafer just in case they need a little more.The B.P.'s love the wafers too!Your kind advice echoes what I am thinking as well.If the fish were not so darn healthy I might be more concerned,but they are active,growing and thriving.I had a call this morning about a 55 gall.tank,stand and accessories for $175.00.-D