Nitrite and Ammonia is unbelieveably high, despite all I do!

Tayles

Tayles

Large Fish
#1
Jun 14, 2003
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I don't know what to do. Here's what's going on. The ten gallon has 2 female platies, and one pleco (Didn't have anywhere else to put him and I'm not going to kill him) Well, I did a water check, and there was an outrageous amount of nitrite and ammonia. So I did a 25% water change added Easy Balance and Aqua Safe, and hoped for the best. Well the next day, I tested the water again to see if it was *any* better, and it was actually not at all better. I'm talking nitrite in massive amounts here (Have an undergravel filter with carbon), The tank is still in cycling phases I understand that, but for it to get that high, I'm talking like 5.0 nitrite, and probably 2.0 ammonia. Well I was worried about the health of my fish so I changed 75% of the water (all water changes are done via a gravel vaccuum). Today the both are at .50, which as I understand is still unacceptable. What should I do? Please help.
 

Scrumpy

Scrumpy

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#7
Oct 22, 2002
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#7
Originally posted by Tayles
How do you get rid of a bacteria colony? Does it just go away naturally? I just have an underground filter system in there.
Click to expand...
You need to do a lot of reading up...but you NEED bacteria. that's what the cycle is all about.
Very simply, fish poo and decomposing food, plant leaves etc produced ammonia.
Ammonia is very toxic to fish so you need bacteria in your filter, on rocks etc to break it down. They use it as a food source.
The ammonia gets broken down into nitrites which are still bad for fish but not as bad as the ammonia.
Now you need different bacteria to convert the nitrites to nitrates.
Once you have nitrates you can only remove them by doing water changes...but they're not nearly as dangerous to fish as ammonia and nitrites.
When your tank is properly cycled, you will have all the bacteria you need to convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate without there being any detectable levels of ammonia or nitrite in the water while it happens.
Since you have nitrites you've got the first stage underway, and eventually you'll start getting nitrates too...and then the ammonia and nitrites will drop to o.
Then you're cycled.
Sit it out....don't over feed because that will produce more ammonia, and vacuum the gravel and keep the tank clean.
Only do water changes if your fish are in imminent danger because you'll slow and prolong the cycling process by removing the food source for the bacteria.
Don't use chemicals that bind ammonia either because that will also sabotage the cycle.
Just don't meddle with it :)
 

Lou

Lou

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#8
Jul 18, 2003
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SW Wisconsin
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#8
One concern I have living in rural Wisconsin is the N level in tap water...can be quite high. But if that is not a concern...

I think it is a good question if people are doing cycling with fish what levels of N are too high and requires swapping out water. I found a site that gave levels

www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html

and this was helpful to guide my concern for the fish. Do folks here agree with the above site? It seemed reasonable to me, and a bit of an innovation to name N levels to be concerned about instead of just saying NO2 will spike, change water regularly.

Lou
 

FroggyFox

FroggyFox

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#10
May 16, 2003
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Lou...it depends which N you're talking about. Nitrites or Nitrates? Nitrites are usually only high during the cycling process because the bacteria doesn't exist to convert the nitrites to nitrates. If the nitrites in your tap water are high you can either go to using RO water...or you'll just have to have a stronger bacteria colony established to take care of converting them to nitrates. Nitrites get to a dangerous level for fish when they are high for long amounts of time (like during the cycle...several weeks)

Nitrates are taken out by live plants, or water changes. If your tap water is high in nitrates then you have a problem. I usually say when your nitrates are above 10ppm then its time for a water change. If your tap water has several ppm of nitrates then you're probably ok...but if its over 10ppm then I would suggest finding a new source of water.

Overall I agree with that site...however some important things it didn't mention were: FISHLESS cycling...yes JasonF hit it on the head, fishless cycling can go by faster because you don't have to worry about harming the fish. Not doing any water changes makes the cycle go faster...you can hike the temperature up to 80 or 90 degrees and make it go faster...you can artificially get the ammonia levels up higher initially to make things go faster.

Water changes during a tank cycling will prolong the process...if you do enough water changes it can prolong the process for MONTHS.

Following the instructions on that site would be fine...would assure your fish no harm...but I disagree that your tank would cycle in exactly that amount of time. I wrote down the levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate daily during my 1G, 10G and 15G tanks cycling process...and I can tell you that no one can predict exactly how long its going to take.
 

Lou

Lou

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#11
Jul 18, 2003
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SW Wisconsin
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#11
It's interesting I have two breeding tanks (10 gal) I'm cycling and it seems that the N levels (all flavors) are down to 0 in two weeks. I put 3 pearl danios in one and 2 in the other. Seems pretty fast. I have done 10% water changes a couple of times just to be sure the fish were ok, but the levels are now 0 and I haven't changed water in 3 days, so I think it is done.

pH is 7.8 which is down from 8.2 so it may be that the system is getting nicely cycled. My water is pH 8.2 out of the tap (well after sitting and the CO2 gasses off) so I'm hoping that the tanks will have an ability to take the higher pH water and still maintain a pH below 8...guppies don't seem to do well in the higher pH environment.

Anyway, anyone who has 10 ppm nitrate out of the tap shouldn't drink their water, much less put it in a fish tank.

cheers,

Lou
 

Lou

Lou

Large Fish
#12
Jul 18, 2003
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SW Wisconsin
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#12
One other thing for Tayles with the under gravel filter if you vacuum the gravel during cycling I think it can mess up the cycle and put different flavors of N in the water column. I remember reading this, so if you do swap out water it might be good to not disturb the gravel much. I'd nix the pleco too since (well depending on size) they can be a big mess maker. I just got rid of one at the fish store here who gladly took it. My community tank is a lot less maintenance now.

I'd welcome other's comments about UGF since I'm just repeating what I read, not my personal experience.

Lou
 

FroggyFox

FroggyFox

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#13
May 16, 2003
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#13
eh...ok two more cents from froggy :) UGF's are a pain. BUT I think that if someone is cycling with one the generally "accepted" protocol would be to leave the tank alone until it appears cycled...then do a big water change including gravel vaccuum and then watch the levels for a few more days before adding fish because taking the gunk out of the gravel might deplete the bacteria somewhat. Of course if you're doing a fishless cycle there wouldn't be any reason to do anything at the end of the cycle except the 90% water change because there shouldn't be any gunk.
 

Lou

Lou

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#14
Jul 18, 2003
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SW Wisconsin
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#14
One other thing for Tayles with the under gravel filter if you vacuum the gravel during cycling I think it can mess up the cycle and put different flavors of N in the water column. I remember reading this, so if you do swap out water it might be good to not disturb the gravel much. I'd nix the pleco too since (well depending on size) they can be a big mess maker. I just got rid of one at the fish store here who gladly took it. My community tank is a lot less maintenance now.

I'd welcome other's comments about UGF since I'm just repeating what I read, not my personal experience.

Lou
 

Tayles

Tayles

Large Fish
#15
Jun 14, 2003
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#15
Okay, I'm not into fish cycling either, but I had no choice. I had my tank for a week and was cycling it alone and was going to continue, however, the two female platies absolutly had to be taken out of the tank they were in, as I have a super-horny male platy who would NOT leave them alone, and because they no longer wanted to mate with him he was chasing them all the time, stressing them out and nipping their fins off. The pleco also had to be taken out of another tank as it was told that we're overstocked, and I can't just kill the fish, and I don't believe the fish store here takes fish. I will be sure to ask. What do y'all do about algae and stuff? Do you use normal sucker fishes that aren't pleco's? Or what? *Please don't think of me as a cruel person, I'd never put any living animal through cycling or torture*
 

FroggyFox

FroggyFox

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#16
May 16, 2003
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#16
Ottos are small fish that eat algae :) I have 2 of them in my 10G, might get some for my 15, we'll see...they're pretty cute. Other people who have larger plecos usually have larger tanks.
 

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