OMFG head in hole???

[Toam]

I can pretty much positively identify the disease, in my Angel tank, 29 gallon, my silver Angelfish has not been eating the past few days, and now I'm witness to some pits, and holes in his face
I'm out of chems to test the water, I'll try and get it to my LFS tomorrow to give you guys the readings, but what on earth could be going on???
I do water changes once a week, at 40%, there is only the two Angels and one small common pleco in this tank, and it's been cycled for over a year now. These are definitely some of my favorite fish, and I've been nervously watching the eating habits of them. Now I've indentified the problem, although I'm unsure as to how it happened, I only missed one water change about 2 weeks ago.
Please please please give me some help guys.

 

[TLM4x4]

http://www.fishpalace.org/disease.html#external


Heres a link so you can check it out for yourself...its not really known if its a parasite or a combination of other things...anyway, Im sorry..Im sure it is very upsetting, Good Luck.

heres another one...
http://www.fishdeals.com/fish_diseases/hole_in_head/

 

[Toam]

thanks alot man. Those links pretty much said what the rest were... Not too much info on the curing portion. I just did a 70% water change, and added aquarium salt to try and help, I'm going to go to my LFS tomorrow and look into some meds, but going by the sites, most of them state that hold in head is usually something else, and that the meds usually aren't enough. I'm going after the root of the problem, quick question.... While i was doing the water change, I noticed a few pennies must have gotten knocked into the tank recently, is it possible the metals in these could have started the upset in my balance?

 

[TLM4x4]

You know, that certainly is not a GOOD thing to have in your tank and Im not quite sure what a penny is actually MADE of other than copper? Who knows for sure what kind of effect that might have on your fish, Im certain it isnt good though...Glad I could help and just sos ya know...Im not a man

 

[Toam]

I shoulda checked the 2006 what do you look like thread first eh?
But definitely you've been alot of help so far, thanks woman
yea, I def don't think the penny was helping, a cat musta knocked it off my hood is all i can think of

 

[TLM4x4]

lol Hey I know its hard to TELL just from an avatar and a nic

 

[Toam]

I'm doing 60-70% water changes daily, and using salt atm, because I don't really know what else to do....
This morning my silver angel was doing a big of a horizontal swim, like his axis is all messed up
The holes in his face aren't severe looking, but his lack of eating, and the way he appears to be swimming are breaking my heart... I want to help him sooooo bad, and at the same time I don't want him to suffer... These fish have some sentimental value to me.
I am going to get to my LFS today, it's been pouring rain all week, and I don't drive, so it makes travel difficult atm.
Any advice people? I'm sorry I just really want to do the right thing, and I'm caught in an emotional rock and a hard place.

 

[H2O]

Because of the research I've done for camellanus-I have seen that the first line of defense against hole in the head is often metronadizole (Seachem is a good brand). I would use it in the water and in the food. It is debatable whether or not hole in the head is caused by hexamita, but it is sometimes accompanied by it.
A vitamin or mineral deficiency is also indicated with hole in the head disease. Try adding some high quality frozen food to their diet. Also add a powdered vitamin supplement.
Angels don't typically like too much salt in their water-I would go easy on it.
Also, I would suggest smaller water changes, now that anything possibly harmful is seriously diluted, the smaller water changes will be less stressful.

Hope this helps some-best of luck.

p.s. pennies are mostly made of zinc, with a small percentage of copper. I don't know about the effect on the water.

 

[Toam]

Thanks much for the info, definitely most helpful.
What about if he isn't eating?
I've only gotten him to nibble a few flakes, and that was yesterday, it seems to pain him to eat? he will grab a bite, and than start to shake violently. It's defintiely not pleasant to watch, once he stops shaking, he shy's away from the food.

 

[H2O]

Hmmm, don't know about pain when eating, is there anything that he usually loves to eat? (like frozen bloodworms, etc?) Going without food for a few days is fine, but obviously makes it difficult to medicate.
Maybe someone else has a better idea.

 

[Toam]

their favorite food always seems to be freeze dried brine shrimp. I've tried all varieties of frozens which they like as well, but the freeze dried stuff makes em almost pop out of the water when they grab at it *twirlysmi
he's only nibbling on that though...

 

[cinlnk]

here ya go !!!!

Here is your solution to the CAT knocking pennies in yer Tank !!!
http://www.collegehumor.com/games/1685438/

ENJOY!!!!!!*SUPERSMIL

 

[H2O]

Nibbling is better than nothing. Try moistening the brine shrimp and mixing it with the metro and vitamins. That's the only thing I can come up with now...

 

[Toam]

Here is your solution to the CAT knocking pennies in yer Tank !!!
http://www.collegehumor.com/games/1685438/

ENJOY!!!!!!*SUPERSMIL

now that link was a funny one *thumbsups

 

[Toam]

I definitely am not going to add pictures at this point....
I have lowered my water changes to reduce stress, but am still doing about 15-20% a day right now. The silver angel fish is in some rough shape, the entire area above his lips is gone, I'm not even sure if he could properly swallow food at this point... It is probaly the saddest thing I have seen since I got into this hobby. My other Angel, which is a marble, is now refusing to take food, and this has me seriously stressing. I was at my LFS but they did not have any meds that would be at all helpful, they are pretty much stocked up on ich treatment meds though
I picked up some frozen bloodworms, and am trying to just mix as much variety as possible into their diet, but at this point, it doesn't even appear like they are taking any food at all
There is no visible affliction to my marble angel at the moment, but the lack of interest in food, is definitely something new (he is normally an aggressive eater). This wednesday or Thursday my LFS said they will try to get some meds in for HLLE, so all I can do is wait until than, and keep up the water changes...
This is definitely one of the harder things I've had to deal with, I'm very attached to this pair, and losing them is not something I want to think about, but every day it looks more and more like that is going to be the outcome.
Cross your fingers for me guys, and just one quick question, If I have to do something out of mercy, what is the recommended method? freezing?
God, I don't even want to contemplate that..

 

[H2O]

In a post on dropsy, Pure recommends using a mix of clove oil and vodka 50/50 to put them out of their misery. Or, use a sharp knife to cut the head off, or hit head with a hammer. (I know this is horrible, but it's better than them suffering)
Actually having part of his face gone sounds absolutely terrible! I'm so sorry for you and your fish.

 

[Toam]

Here's the thing, Im just got the medication last night. It's not his whole face, but his upper lip is virtually non-existant. The only question I had was if I could add the meds with my large sword plant in there, or should I take out the sword. So far I've heard if the root structure is large(which it is) than to leave it in. I'm going to add med's as soon as I get home from school today, so hopefully I'm doing it in time?
Does it seem likely that his upper lip will re-grow once I've started the meds? It just doesn't look very pleasant, I know HLLE moves all along the horizontal line of a fish, and so far it's still just his face that I can see, but the missing upper lip is just not right. Please give me input, do the meds and watch and see right? I'm really hoping my silver angel can pull through this

 

[H2O]

I believe in always trying meds before giving up on a fish, I would think that if the HLLE is taken care of, his lip might regrow. My cichlids are often getting their fins ripped and such, and they always heal/regrow.
I have no experience with aquarium plants-I would be curious to know if plants would remove some of the medication, though. You might try asking in another catagory about that, if you don't get a reply in this one.