PETA, gotta love em, the gods of misinformation.

[AndyL]

Thought you guys would get a laugh out of this.

http://www.peta.org/mc/facts/fsc18.html

I really like the part about making the pH more suitable to fish's natural environment... Not that hardness would make more of a difference, or that modifying pH is just a good way to kill fish anyway...

Anyone who can write/speak eloquently want to email these morons and re-educate them?

Andy

 

[Orion]

PETA?....i thought Taco Bell sold those?


....or was it Sonic?



lol, nice article. Kinda like all of those non smoking adds they are running on TV now, makes me want a cigarette!

 

[Orion]

One more thing.....I DO like red meat!
LOL, sorry, been looking at the rest of there website.

 

[madhippoz]

Hahah I love the bit about the feeble goldfish and his larger fish friend that helped him out. 1 example out of a 1000 where another fish helped out, rather than just killed or straight out ate the weaker fish.

Also its hilarious how they state, if you have fish, this is what you can do to make life more bearable for them. And then in their list of tips they describe how to cycle a new tank! Those evil fish-store supporting bastards!!!! I love how they call fish stores "Dealers" too, makes them sound like your neighbourhood drug dealer. "I'd like an ounce of smack, and 2 gourami's!"

The whole bit about disrupting their communcation via our pumps and filters makes no sense either. Unless you have your air pump vibrating and shaking away right in side the water I don't see how its vibrations even get into the tank. And your filter, hell, people use HOB or Canisters which again do not transmit mass waves of sound and vibration into the water, All your filter does is create current, which they would have in their natural environment anyway. The only noise equivalent might be your airstone churning up bubbles, but then, this is a condition they would run into in the wild as well with fast moving water or air bubbles in the water. If their communication was so disrupted you'd think that for example schooling fish would have trouble schooling properly, but that's obviously not the case. Hogwash.

Obviously by purchasing fish you have to realize you probably indirectly are supporting some illegal, or at the very least unethical fish capture practices. But people will always buy pet fish, just like people will always keep dogs and cats. So boycotting by not buying fish isn't an effective way to combat those problems. Plus, are you seriously going to tell me that there is not a single member of PETA that does not own a fish, or a dog. By owning a dog and purchasing it from a pet store... ...your supporting puppy farms!

I don't buy either that fish suffer horrible excruciating lifes in well kept aquariums either. Mine routinely chase and play with each other and interact with the other fish in the tank, not the sign of an animal doomed to a insufferable trying existence.

 

[tramca]

Fragile tropical fish, born to dwell in the majestic seas and forage among brilliantly colored coral reefs, .......


..............will be eaten by a fish bigger than them!

Thats all I will read from that webpage.
Next it will be cruel to keep dogs. But I suppose they are entitled to their opinions......

 

[tramca]

ooooooooooo...just read more....they go on to tell us how to look after the fish properly......
All I can say is this....when I buy fish from a pet shop I am saving then form overcrowded conditions.
If they die in my care then I can say I did my best and they had a better start In my tank than the one they came from....does that sound right to you?

 

[Avalon]

I thought the article was not too bad. However, I can tell that this article was written with a point to make, that being "Don't keep fish, it is cruel."

To get down to the nitty-gritty, their sources and the messages they take from them are highly construed. Their souces are from magazines that have nothing to do with fish. US and World Report? Someone must have done some bathroom reading, cut and pasted a particular line in their article, and said "I have a source to back that up!"

Example: "The Mating Sounds of Fish" -New York Times.
What kind of fish? Tetras or dolphins? I have appropriate sources that show tetras give off chemicals to communicate. They don't bark.

Their message of keeping fish in a tank is cruel and then providing a list of "proper" ways to keep fish is contradicting. Hell, all the fish are martyrs of our ignorance anyway, so why don't we flush them all and end their "miserable" lives?

Some of their points are good, albeit construed, for inexperienced aquarists. Instead of them complaining, maybe they should fund research to improve the capture, transport, and keeping of fish.

Pardon me while I open my gate and let my dog roam the neighborhood...

 

[madhippoz]

Good points Avalon. Certainly fish do suffer at the hands of many inexperienced aquarists and only live comfortably in a properly maintained tank. I haven't checked up any of their sources yet, but kind of thought that to be the case. Its pretty common practice nowadays, to quote a source is a far cry from proof anymore, you can find an uninformed magazine article to support almost anything, or as you mention, miscontrue the true intent of the article to fit your own situation.

Their list of tips was good, but completely contradicting I agree. Better regulations, and enforcement of those regulations is a realistic approach to solving the problems with the Exotic fish industry. I always question the effectiveness of boycotting anything. I just don't think it works.

 

[AmazonTankz]

I'm not going to get into a PETA bashing thread b/c I've seen it to many times. People make fun of their articles thinking they know everything and in all actuallity they know very little about the subject they are defending. I'm not saying everything they say is right,(espectially in this artical) but more often then not people immidiatly make fun of or deny there causes without even giving the info a chance.

But i would like to set something strate. They will never believe or tell us to believe that owning a dog is cruel, as long as you treat that dog with respect. They won't b/c there is a BIG difference between dogs and tropical fish, or birds etc. Dogs or canines were creatated by humans from wolves, foxes etc.They are completly domesticated in everyway. If you were to let your dog lose in the wild most likely they will not survive. They need us to live. Other animals are or were wild to begin with.

 

[RedTurquoise]

I didnt know that dogs were 'created' by humans! Some dogs maybe domesticated by humans, similar to horses, cows, cats, etc! ??

Back to the article, its not a bad article and I do believe that there is some merit to it regarding their methods of capturing fish! In many under developed countries, they do not exibit the same conscience for the environment and the effect humans impact it. However, sometimes, these stories are blown out of proportion to sound more evil than it actually is.

Their tips on keeping fish are not bad and if everyone that was fish were to follow them, their fish would be happier and healthier. Of course, I do not support the ph comment however.

 

[AndyL]

I had issue with the ph testing (with no regard for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate testing) No mention of HOW to cycle the tank, following their method, it'd be run completely empty (not even adding ammonia)

I also took issue with their stocking level, that'd mean I could have roughly 4" of fish in my 55g. That doesn't quite sound right. It would sure look bare with 4 neon tetras in it dont you think?

So if dogs were bred as domestics by humans, does that mean its ok for me to have a JellyBean Parrot, because it was 'created' by humans, and doesn't appear in the wild? We wont get into the packs of wild dogs in the bush, or the Dingo in australia, they sure seem to thrive.

Just my .02

 

[AmazonTankz]

I know nothing about JellyBean parrots. But, no it is not. What I ment is dogs are one of if not the oldest domesticated animals and there for can not lead full and healthful lives without us. Tropical fish can parrots can. Yes there are predators and disease but many survive this and have the instincts to do so.
I assume that the JellyBean parrot was created for the pure pleasure of humans. Brought into this world only to make a buck. When we domesticated and created the dog if was out of nessesity. At that time we need the help of a domesticated animal such as the dog for our survival.

I think we are getting of topic.

 

[catfishmike]

peta,always misguided but well meaning.i must take issue with this though.i always thought that fish communicated through body motion,color variation,mating ritual,etc...not electromagnetic commuications.now some fish DO communicate this way,those fish are far and few in between.if they were to go after a real animal killer they would go after birds and reptiles as they are smuggled in in crule and insidious ways like packing animals into the tires on cars and whatnot.few animals survive these smuggling methods.or maybe they could chastise cat owners for not letting out "kitty" so that the cats have the oppertunity to kill and maime small rodents and the such.whats next?!

 

[Eire]

Love that selective referencing...they must really have liked weeding through a lot of the fish literature, especially some of the academic predation experiments. They tend to involve death for the prey, with a lot of this happening in tanks.

 

[Rob1114]

PETA is against anyone owning pets in any shape or form. They mean well sometimes, but are way too extreme in their ideology and methods.

I'm sure my fish really have it bad....I mean all they have is a cycled tank with plenty of space to live in, clean water, constant supply of food...no fear of predators, and medicine if they get sick.

Looks like I'm really mistreating them. *rolleyes*

 

[Backdraft Bagel]

I'm argumentative enough where I'd enjoy an email discourse with a PETA representative about fish keeping. But there's no point in opening a dialogue with them. Their minds are made up.

 

[madhippoz]

Certainly my intent is not to bash on PETA for the sake of bashing on PETA. I think the priniciples behind what they want to do are noble and legitimate, if at times misguided. However, when they post articles with contradictions, misleading information, misleading "sources", they need to be called to task for it just like anyone else. There is enough bullshit and misinformation floating around these days that we don't need more confusing people who are trying to make informed decisions.

I agree that dogs are perhaps a slightly different scenario as compared to fish. However, you can draw a parrallel between the selection and unrestricted breeding of fish for asthetic appearance and profit, to the unrestricted cross breeding, and poor living conditions that exist in peoples backyard puppy mills and the like. It's a case of, where do you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable, its not easy.

 

[tramca]

Errrrmmmm....I apologise for mentioning dogs ok?

 

[RedTurquoise]

LOL! No need to!

 

[nonamethefish]

I'll agree about there intentions

Never heard of a fish yelping and barking in low frequency...

Sounds like they mean dolphins yelping and barking in high frequency.

Nect thign you know, they will say its cruel to keep trees because they chirp when they don't get enough water(a fact bTW)


If fish werent happy in the aquarium, they would not breed....

We would never see a pair of kribs quickly change coloration ot signal there young to take cover, just as they do in the rivers of West africa.

We would never be able to brag about keepign the rarest and coolest and being the first to breed a new fish.

The first part(combatting SW)..is pretty good...then misinformation and stuff that we will never know comes in(was that goldfish simply hitching in for a ride, an oscar would have ate it anyway)...fish hate being in our tanks.

We will never know the world in a fishes eyes, or there "language" because we are human...

But I think that fish kept in the hands of knowlegeable hobbyists are satisfied for the most part about there enviroments and themselves.