pH Info -- New Tank

[revfred]

I tested my tap water and the pH is 8.4 (prox). I will be setting plants next week when they arrive.

Should I bring the pH down before I plant the tanks?

Will the plants and the CO2 bring the pH down after I've planted them and begun cycling?

I'm at kind of a loss here. Suggestions welcome. Thank you.


Fred

 

[AmazonTankz]

Yes, adding CO2 will naturally bring your ph down. Probably all you will need. It is a good thing to not mess with you ph, especially with all those chemicals that are sold. The only real/safe way to bring your ph down is to use CO2, Peat Filteraltion, or use something like RO water. Most of the time people think they need to change there ph and they really don't resulting in ph swings that will kill fish.

 

[revfred]

"Tanks", Tankz Yes, I wanted to avoid adding chemicals if I could and lower it naturally. In the past when I've kept just fish, I've screwed up the pH by adding chemicals . . . up and down, up and down . . .it was a mess.

I will throw some peat in the filter along with running the CO2. This is a new place and I never had tanks here before. So I was surprised when the water checked so alkaline.

Thanks again.

 

[AmazonTankz]

yep, no prob

 

[djlen]

Rev, keep in mind that adding peat will probably turn your water to a brown tint(ugly IMO). And not the best method.
What kind of CO2 will you be using? DIY or Pressurized? I'm assuming that it's the 20 long you spoke of before in another thread.
pH will not matter to plants but will matter to fish, so you can either start up your CO2 now or wait until the plants arrive.
I'm also assuming that the tank is a newly started one. And there are no fish in it as yet?
As you can see more info would be helpful.
If you have fish in it I would pull them out and put them in your hospital tank. Since you've been using chemicals, I would empty the tank completely and re-fill with fresh water. Hopefully you are getting a ton of plants. They will cycle the tank in days for you if there are enough of them. Especially if you're providing CO2 for them.
Here's more questions: Type of substrate? Do you know the kH of your water? How much lighting?
Answer these questions and we can be of more help. Then I'll probably have more questions for you(ha, ha).
Len

 

[mike the zealot]

tinted water is cool for south american biotope tanks IMO.

 

[revfred]

Hi Len & Mike,

CO2 from a small Hagen set-up . . . similar to a DIY. Being "technologically challenged" I spent $20 bucks for a set-up and a year's worth of refills . . . just add sugar and water (I can do that).

Lighting is an Oceanic PC/55W. Red Fluorite substrate. No fish . . . ton of plants arrive tomorrow. No water. Have 20 gallons dechlored. KH is 35.8ppm, pH 8.4. Have driftwood in as well. Hoping that with it and the CO2, the pH and KH will drop. Would like to maintain a pH of 6.5-6.8.

I'm planning an all tetra tank (likely Cardinals), so I'm willing to do with a bit of peat color as a trade off if necessary to maintain the pH and KH. Will also have oto cats and SAE's . . . maybe some Ghost Shrimp but won't replace them if they die off. Those will go in to catch up on the algae. Will add the Cardinals after the tank is cycled.

Purchased some Bio-Spira with a mfg.'s rec to get the plants acclimated . . . add the fish and the Bio-Spira at the same time.

Plan is to fill with water as I set the plants in the foreground, fill to set the midground, and fill to set the background . . . then top off the tank. Let it set 24 hours, then crank up the filter, CO2 and lighting.

I've decided to pull the carbon out of the filter material . . . I think I mentioned that.

What do you think?

 

[AmazonTankz]

Well, it sounds like you are going to have a beutiful tank when it's all said and done. Plus, the tea colored water will make the fish a heck of a lot more secure.

Plus, I like that look in the right setup.


P.S. Tis true, I have heard peat filtration to be a somewhat messy indevour, but I think it is worth it.

 

[Avalon]

You really don't need the Bio-Spira--plants do not acclimate to new water, they only acclimate to a new enviornment. After adding all of those plants, you will probably have taken care of your cycling problems due to excess ammonia and nitrite. Take daily readings of both and watch what happens! After about a week, you should be able to safely add fish; the bacteria will catch up quickly from here on out. Post your results!

Add as many plants as you can at first. If you have too many, you can always remove them later. Start the CO2, filter, and light cycle up immediately, but do not fertilize for a couple of weeks. Wait until the plants grow in and sprout new leaves. In 2-3 days, the water should be clean, and all you need to do is to coax those plants to settle in and grow!

I just set up a 20g a couple days ago, using flourite, plants, and a filter from another tank. I added fish the same day (6 neon rainbows, 3 baby clown loaches, 4 otocinclus, and 3 SAE's), and they are as happy as can be! I also have a 55 watt Coralife PC, but no CO2--yet. I need to get something going.

 

[revfred]

Thanks Avalon & Tankz,

I figure that once it gets"set" I'll give some of the plants away to a couple of friends and then get some of the more delicate ones I have had an eye on.

Yep, I'll post the results. . . and thanks for suggestions re: a beginning fish load, esp. the oto's and SAE's. I've noticed that the dechlored tap water has just a tad of ammonia in it . . . less than .5ppm. Which I thought would help. I'll keep you posted . . . actually plants will arrive tomorrow.

 

[HanshaSuro]

My 20 gallon is somewhat of an Amazon biotope tank, if you will. The main inhabitants are rummies and glowlights. Knowing that they prefer soft water, I've added driftwood as the primary decoration. This seems to keep my water at about pH 6.4.

Is it worth it to add the peat filtration? Is the water color that important for the tetras? The plan is to eventually scrap the substrate and plants I currently have (unlike the fish, I did little to no research about planted tanks before I started ) and begin again properly. This would eventually include a DIY CO2 system.

My feeling from this thread is that peat + CO2 + driftwood might combine to be too much change in pH. Any thoughts?

 

[Avalon]

The biotypes for Amazon fish such as tetras would include black water, so I don't think a little brown tint will hurt. Peat could be a good addition if you are looking to simulate the biotype. It would be up to you to determine if you need it. If your water is already very soft, and you are happy with your pH, then you may decide against it. If you need softer water and a lower pH, then adding peat would probably be benficial. Keep in mind, the darker your water, the more light you will need to grow the plants.

You might want to wait until you get the CO2 going and see what your water parameters look like afterwards.

 

[Framer]

Originally posted by revfred
[ KH is 35.8ppm, pH 8.4. Have driftwood in as well. Hoping that with it and the CO2, the pH and KH will drop. Would like to maintain a pH of 6.5-6.8.

There are some issues with either your test kits or your water. You've listed dKH as 2 and pH as 8.4. Referring to the CO2 charts that would mean your CO2 right now is 0.239 ppm which is way below ambient levels of 2-3 ppm. What does this mean? It means with a dKH of 2, your "natural" pH should be about 7.3 to 7.5. Why is your pH so high then? It could be that either result of your test kits could be wrong and you are faced with determining the one that's in error and replacing that kit. Take a sample to a good LFS and have them test the pH and KH. If their test results reflect the same readings as yours, then you have a tougher issue to deal with. What that means is your water has another buffer other than carbonate/bicarbonate. Essentially this renders the CO2 charts useless, as does filtering with peat, though at least it's possible to make adjustments for the humic acid interference of peat. But when there is an unknown buffer you are left with really only one option for determining safe CO2 levels. Inject only enough CO2 to effect a 0.6 to 0.8 drop in pH. A drop of 1.0 indicates 30ppm and it the beginning of the range where it starts to stress fish. Maintaining that 0.6 to 0.8 drop will insure that you CO2 levels don't reach critical amounts. Don't use peat to lower the pH, with your other problem you will be doubling the errors and making it really difficult to safely inject CO2.

Also note that injecting CO2 does not lower KH. Part of the carbon dioxide forms carbonic acid, it is this carbonic acid that lowers the pH, but this has no measurable effect on KH.

If you have a dKH of 2, and it's determined that your pH test result is in error, then the pH range of 6.5 to 6.8 is very feasible. But if your pH test kit is correct, you can't inject enough CO2 to effect a drop from 8.4 to 6.8 (drop of 1.6) with potentially causing severe stress or death to your fish. A drop of 1.6 would equally over 100ppm of CO2.

 

[revfred]

Hmmm . . . Yes, I think I will re-test the water after things are going for awhile and take a sample for the LFS to test at the same time. And I did not think that if the water is darker, I would need more light to grow the plants.

Thanks guys for the "heads up."

 

[revfred]

Planted them today . . . "tons o' plants" arrived. Water lettuce was more like "heads of lettuce".

TetraTec filter is fussy . . .but clearing the water . . . but if this keeps up I see a small cannister in my future.

I can see where this is going to take awhile to get the plant mix I eventually want. Seems to be a difference between what I consider "small" than what the plant farm sees as such. Was wondering if I could trim them now or wait until they get set?

Going to wait on the peat as suggested.