PH Keeps climbing

[setarris]

Finding all three of my tanks sustaining high PH level. Water from tap, which I use, for water changes tests at 7.0 with low GH, and good KH. But after 2-3 days its reading 7.8.

Worked with an acidifier (sodium monophosphate) and I got the one tank down to 7.2 but this morning right back to 7.8. I'm concerned with too extreme a PH change too quickly and constantly putting the acidifier in to keep it lower.

Something I'm missing? Or any recommendations on how to lower it with out stressing the fishes?

I bought "Proper PH" which claims to set water at 7.0 thought about pretreating the next water for the next water change, but it mentions that it's detrimental to plants. This stuff any good?
I have seen some products, which claims to hold PH at the level, which the water is at application. Is this stuff any good?

 

[huck]

Is there a reason why you want to lower your pH?  Are you trying to bread your fish?  If your fish seem good, then leave it... simple as that...

 

[setarris]

Fish in two aquariums showing signs of frayed tails and it's getting worse. Have ruled out disease, stress, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, GH, KH, tail nipping, decorations damage, everything I can find that could be causing it. The only thing left that is common in all three tanks is high PH. Really don't know where to go from here. Thought I better find out more about PH and see if there was a way to lower it in one tank and see if it would make a difference.
Do you have any other suggestion for helping stop the tail fray?

 

[dattack]

What are the fishes you have in each tank and how large are the tanks?

 

[colesea]

Question 1: What type of fish do you have?

Question 2: What are you using for substrate/gravel?

Question 3: What type of rocks are you using for decor?
               a) tufa: white with holes
               b) lava: red with holes
               c) rainbow: white with red and yellow-orange lines
               d) slate or shale: gray to black, flat plane
               e) coral: white, shaped like coral for marine tanks
               f) other types not described above

Question 4: Do you have any sea-shells or things you  
                collected from outside as decor in your tanks?

Quesiton 5: Do you have live plants?

Question 6: What size tanks and how many fish?

~~Colesea

 

[ronrca]

Its not the pH thats causing the frayed tails. You have ruled out a large number of areas which could still be the problem. Let us know why you ruled these things out.

There are many reasons why pH rises however a common cause is C02 dissapation. Tell us more about your tanks and we will help.  *thumbsupsmiley*

 

[setarris]

Tank 10 gal;
3 Silver dollar
1 Pleco
1 Male Betta

Betta is the one showing fray, silver dollars remain fine

Gravel:  aquarium pea gravel (not sure if that tells enough)

Rocks:  Geode from LFS

Plants: 2 plastic, 1 silk

Tank 20 gal;

5 Black Skirt Tetra

5 Stripped Danios

3 Glass Fish

3 White Skirt Tetra

1 Pleco

Biggest Black skirt and 2 smaller ones showing fray, everybody else ok

Gravel: pea gravel

Rocks: 3 shells, 1 from LFS, 2 from outside (they have been decorations in bathroom for 10 years, boiled them for 30 min and rinsed before putting in tank)

Plants: 3 silk, 1 plastic, have bulbs starting to sprout

I have well water with Extreme filter system (cost us a small fortune we are still paying for!) As I was sleeping last night I let the problem work on it's self and the first thing I thought was SALT. The filter system is supposed to remove it, and I did a salinity test FRI with no perceptual readings showing. Could an amount of salt undetectable in a salinity test still affect the fish?

I take it my wondering about PH is the wrong direction?

 

[colesea]

I wouldn't be suprised to find out the silver dollars are nipping at the fins of your bettas. Silver dollars are notorious fin nippers, and a betta is just too tempting for them. Also, betta fins, being long, get caught on decor an awful lot and tear when the fish goes through them to escape being chased.
Danios are also known fin nippers and could be after the black skirts. The two danios I have have turned my long fin white skirt tetra into a short fin white skirt tetra, and constantly harass the bloodfin tetras.  They've also shredded each other's tails.

Hmm...it could be the rock and shells that are in your tank which are upping your pH. The geod may not be made of a non-dissolvable rock, and is probably leaching minerals into your tank water, thus increasing your pH. Same with the sea shells. Sea shells are made of a form of calcium carbonate, the same minerals in limestone, and that definately dissolves in tank water and can really increase pH. Limestone and heavily mineralized based rocks should not be placed in freshwater aquariums unless you specifically have hard water fish. Switch your decor rocks to a shale, slate, or quartz based stone and your pH should be fine.

Remove the geod and shells from your tanks and do a 50% water change. Give it a week and see where your pH stands. Pea gravel is quartz and should not affect pH.

Salt undetectible in a salinity test should not affect fish. In fact, scientifically, even water with a salinity of 5.0ppt or lower is still consistered fresh water. The salt in your water could even been beneficial at low levels, helping the fish deal with osmotic stress.

pH isn't a big concern unless you are planning to breed. Even most tropical softwater fishes (tetras and the likes) can handle pH's of 7.8 and moderate hardness.  pH -stability- is the key, and if you are using a water softener system on your house, you may wish to purchase a pH buffer to keep the pH at whatever the pH of your tap water is (do not purchase a chemical that is meant to change pH, you don't want to change it, just stabilize it).  But I think if you remove your rocks and shells, you will see an improvement.
~~Colesea

 

[Matt Nace]

If ammonia, nitrIte, nitrate, temp, and O2 levels(aeration or through lots of plants) are all good, then I say it is fin nipping.

My PH is almost 8.2, 7.8 with Co2, super hard water, I don't even worry about it.

The PH fluctuating does sound like Co2 dispersing. What does the "Extreme filter system " actually do?

 

[setarris]

What does the "Extreme filter system " actually do?

Sorry to take so long getting back just got back home.

It's a 4 part system, First tank filters minerals, chemicals (3M brand beads 3mm in size), 2nd tank disperses sulfur (small amount detectable after sitting for week while gone), 3rd tank softens with salt, 4th R/O.

Impressive system, we're happy with it. It's a must with the water quality as it is.

So tail nipping is the major problem from what you’re saying, and the shells and geode. Will remove and see what happens. Moved Silver dollars to new tank and looking for 2 female bettas to put in with my "Big Guy". Thanks for help!

 

[colesea]

NO NO NO! Don't put female bettas in with a male betta, especially if the male and females have lived previously single lives! Males can be quite ruthless in their efforts to make a female ready to spawn so he can mate. And females can be vicious when they don't want to mate. Read any betta breeder's website (BettaTalk is the best I've found yet). Males have gotten their tail's kicked by females not in the mood.

Try some white cloud mountain minnows with your betta. those are thus far the only fish I've had no trouble keeping with bettas.
~~Colesea

 

[setarris]

Whew... was waiting for our LFS to get some more females in, glad I mentioned it! Thanks. Will check out cloud mountain minnows.

My Betta is in a 10 gal in the living room, it's basically visible at a distance so was thinking something eye catching to go with "Big Guy" but if thats the case with the females that idea is out!

How big are cloud mountain minnows? How big do they get?