Pleco and frog problems

[HaileyEllen]

We are having troubles with our first tank.... most recently, my chocolate pleco sucked on one of my African dwarf frog’s legs until it was bone. I would have thought it was a fish, but there were no bite marks, just sucked clean (kinda stringy looking too.) Also I have seen him corner the frog before, one of the times the pleco had him under his mouth for a good 10 sec before he got away. When I saw the frogs leg a couple days ago I put him in a small tank, but he didn't make it. Now I am worried about my other frog. He is a little bit bigger and I have seen him snap the fish to chase them off, he is pretty good at it. Also I have had two balloon mollies show up dead in the last two days. They were fine before, I don't know why they died but their fins and lips were sucked on too.

I thought Plecos are algae eaters why is this happening?

I have a 29gal tank
2 plecos
4 silver dollars
4 angle fish
9 tetras
Now 2 balloon mollies
2 kuhli loaches
2 little bottom feeders

I have been told that is way too many fish so I'm getting two new tanks ASAP to start cycling. Any ideas on which ones to put in the new tanks would be awesome. I have a 10gal cycling now and I'm saving up for another 30gal but might not have it for a month or more.

-I do bi-monthly water changes 20%
-Clean gravel once a month
-Temp is always around 78
-I have my water checked all the time at my local pet store. Yesterday I went and it wasn't bad. Nitrites were at 0 and Nitrates at about 20-30. But they told me that is a normal level to be at.


I know this is a lot of info, but I just have so many questions.
Thanks so much for any feed back!

 

[MissFishy]

Plecos are scavengers, not killers, so it is hard to believe they hunted down your frog and sucked his leg. Either way, I would not suggest keeping frogs in a tank with plecos or in a tank with your current stocking. They don't really do well in deeper tanks. It sounds like you need more tanks ASAP. With a currently cycled tank, you don't really need to cycle the new tanks, just "seed" them with your current bacteria. Check out the articles in the link in my signature on how to do this.

The silver dollars are especially troublesome, they get to be the size of dinner plates!

 

[jo3olous]

wow thats a lot of fish, i like your move though to get more tanks....

For how you can arrange them... Im surprised your 4 angels havent been fiesty at all being in such cramped quarters with lots of other fish, but I would keep the 4 angels in the 29 with the tetras?

for the 30G I would move the 4 silver dollars and the 2 plecos, I still think its too small a tank for them but to work with what your getting that would be the best choice.

For your 10G I would put the frogs in here, and your 2 'small' bottom feeders, if you can ID those that would help us give you better tips too

GL with your future tanks, you have lots of work to do!

 

[HaileyEllen]

Thanks for the articles, that really helps!

I am moving some of the fish into the 10g tomorrow; I was thinking that the 1 frog would do better in there along with the 2 kuhli loaches and the 9 tetras.

If I put in the frog and loaches in today, how long should I wait to put the tetras in?

Silver dollars, WOW! As big as dinner plates... really? I had no idea; the pet store said that they stay about 4-5in. What is an ideal tank size for them? Should I just skip getting another 30gal and go straight for a 60gl, or would another 30 be suitable?

My pet store also told me that the angel fish (Marbled angels) only get about 4-5in, but I have found web pages that say that they reach up to 18in. What is a normal size for them to reach in their lifetime? and what size tank should they be in?

 

[jo3olous]

Silver dollars, WOW! As big as dinner plates... really? I had no idea; the pet store said that they stay about 4-5in. What is an ideal tank size for them? Should I just skip getting another 30gal and go straight for a 60gl, or would another 30 be suitable?

My pet store also told me that the angel fish (Marbled angels) only get about 4-5in, but I have found web pages that say that they reach up to 18in. What is a normal size for them to reach in their lifetime? and what size tank should they be in?

yeah I definitely would never listen to a pet store worker, EVER. Their job is to make money, whether it requires deceit or not. If you could afford a 60G I would push for it right away, getting a bigger tank for fish that require it ensures their health and lifeline, along with saving you agony and pain of excessive tank maintainence, which can make a fun hobby not so fun anymore.

The angels may only grow 4-5 inches horizontally, but they can get pretty darn long vertically. 18-20 inches is about right, in home aquaria they will most likely hit 14-16, thats from tip of bottom fin to top fin. I would think 20Gs is the absolute minimum for a pair, and a high tank is always better than a long for them.

 

[misterking]

Silver dollars won't get to the size of dinner plates.. not the true silver dollar species anyway. They should max out at 6 inches at the very most, but in any rate they need a lot of space because they're nervous fish and will need somewhere to swim to when they have one of their little moments. They're sometime's sold as "silver pacus" despite them NOT being pacus, pacus will reach the size of dinner plates and well over.

Yeah angels will reach 5-6 inches long, but depending on their variety could be double that in height. They need a deep tank, especially the longer fin varieties.

I would personally have the stocking as such:

10g - kuhli loaches and balloon mollies but beware they may reproduce if there's a female, and also the one frog.

29g - Angelfish (although beware if pairs form, one pair will have to me moved), the tetras HOWEVER it'd be useful to know what type of tetras you have, and the two bottom feeders, again it'd be useful to know what these are.

30g - the silver dollars and plecos but chocolate plecos, can grow 18 inches each - they will need to be rehomed in the future unless you get a larger tank.

hope that helps!

 

[HaileyEllen]

Thanks for all the help! I like the idea of having the kuhli loaches, balloon mollies, and the frog in the 10gl. I'm going to start that in the morning; is it alright to put all five in at the same time?

The tetras are,
5 neons
4 phantoms

Bottom feeders,
1 Laser cory
1 Julli cory

I was going to buy a 30gl next weekend, but if I wait I can get a 60gl by the end of March. Would it be ok to wait that long?

 

[Ich_liebe_fish]

Angles will eat the neons. Go for the 60. 4 angles in a 29 would be much too cramped IMO. Good luck.

 

[misterking]

I've never had angels eat neons. If they're accustomed to them (which I think they are as they've lived in the same tank) and are kept well-fed on food such as frozen bloodworm, they'll be fine with neons.

And yeah I stick with the stocking list I said.. it's true it will be a bit cramped for 4 angelfish once they're fully grown but for now I think they'll be fine. Definately wait for the 60 gallon, it's a worthwhile investment and it'll make spacing your fish out much easier in terms of stocking.

In terms of putting the whole stocking of the 10 in at once, just make sure the tank is fully cycled before you do. How long's it been cycling for?

 

[HaileyEllen]

The tank has been cycling for 2 days. I added bacteria the first day.
I'm about to put in the balloon mollies now. Would it be ok to add the frog now also? Then maybe wait a week to put the loaches in?

 

[Ich_liebe_fish]

NO! Cycling takes three weeks! Wait for at leat a couple more weeks.

 

[DesignsOnYou]

What bacteria did you add? Most of it doesn't work. Tetra SafeStart might, but it needs ammonia to feed off of. So if you add fish today you will be doing a fish in cycle, which can be longer and more stressful than a fishless cycle. You should read up on both and decide what you want to do.

 

[HaileyEllen]

The Bacteria supplement was Top Fin brand.

I don't know if it makes a difference but, I took the filter from my already established tank to put in the new tank, it's been in there the last two days also.

I have already put the two mollies in the tank, should I put them back in the old tank?

 

[DesignsOnYou]

Oh, ok. Yes, the filter from the already established tank will help you out a lot. I would actually leave the mollies in there so that the bacteria has something to feed on. Keep an eye on your water paramaters and you'll hopefully be good.

 

[misterking]

Yeah I agree with designs, that sounds like a good plan. Putting in some form of media from an already established tank, such as gravel, rocks or filter media, can really kick-start a cycle.

 

[HaileyEllen]

Thanks SO much you guys....

The mollies are doing fine, and my old tank seen less crowded already!
How long should I wait to put the loaches and frog in? Would it be too much to put the laser and jullie cory in there too?

Also, when I get the 60gal would it be better to have the silver dollars in there or the angels? Should I split the plecos up, and if so, should I put the regular pleco in the 60gal or the chocolate pleco?

 

[Ich_liebe_fish]

Sorry, I may have missed this the first time around; Are they African Clawed Frogs or African Dwarf Frogs.

 

[HaileyEllen]

Sorry, I may have missed this the first time around; Are they African Clawed Frogs or African Dwarf Frogs.

The one in my fish tank is an African Dwarf Frog, his body length is a little over 1/2in long.... I may have said Clawed frog because have three of them their own 30g, but they're so big they eat gold fish now.

Do I need to worry about the ADF eating any of my fish when he gets to full sized?

 

[HaileyEllen]

I would personally have the stocking as such:

10g - kuhli loaches and balloon mollies but beware they may reproduce if there's a female, and also the one frog.

29g - Angelfish (although beware if pairs form, one pair will have to me moved), the tetras HOWEVER it'd be useful to know what type of tetras you have, and the two bottom feeders, again it'd be useful to know what these are.

30g - the silver dollars and plecos but chocolate plecos, can grow 18 inches each - they will need to be rehomed in the future unless you get a larger tank.

hope that helps!

I have two plecos. One is a chocolate pleco and the other one I was a gift so I don't know for sure, but he looks like a sailfin pleco. Are they ok in the same tank, of should I split them up?

 

[misterking]

They can be a bit territorial when they grow very large.. but for now they should be fine. Just beware of their growth rate coz they can grow veryyy quickly!