Popeye in Red Cap Oranda?

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LydiaGreen

Medium Fish
#1
Sep 16, 2004
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Bubbles is my son's red cap oranda and the fish we have had the longest - survived ALL of my newbie mistakes. Awhile ago, I moved him into my new 20 gallon (cycled 5-6 weeks first, all tests good) with my daughter's two fantails (we had had them for about two months and they were healthy). The dwarf neon rainbow with the ulcer that I posted about in another thread (and who seems to be getting better) has never been in contact with Bubbles in any way - not even water in common. He looks healthy and eats like a trooper but his eyes are sticking out a bit more than is normal for him. To be sure I wasn't seeing things, I asked my son to look at him (Bubbles is his baby - loves that fish) and see if he noticed anything different. My son commented on the "white rings" around Bubbles' eyes that weren't there before. The rings are tiny but certainly were never there before. Spent a couple hours on the internet and I am fairly certain that this is popeye starting.

I KNOW it's not the water quality. There is nothing that could have exposed Bubbles to any bacteria that I can think of - unless the dojo loaches carry bacteria that is harmful to goldfish but not to loaches? Kind of like mollies? Then I thought maybe it was my HOB. I purchased a 30-60 gallon HOB for the 20 because goldfish poop a lot and I wanted to keep their water clean. But, I make sure that the tank has lots of water in it so the flow from the two sides combined isn't excessive and none of the fish seem to be "swimming against the current" so, I don't think it's from increased pressure. Another cause listed was stress. When I put Bubbles in my 20, he was seperated from "Rainbow", my son's smaller calico fantail who has been his companion for more than six months. Is it possible that he's missing Rainbow? Should I move Rainbow into the 20 with Bubbles? I just put the three largest fish in with my loaches because I thought it was unfair to have them in my kids' 10 gallon tanks. I am getting a much larger tank in the months to come (hubby is going to make me a stand and canopy to whatever dimensions I want).

This is what I have now:

20H - two 3" fantail goldfish
- Bubbles the red cap oranda
- three golden dojo loaches
- one common pleco about 4" from whiskers to the tip of his tail (the main reason I bought the 20 and will now be getting a large tank - total rookie mistake - that salesman saw me coming)

10L - seven dwarf neon rainbows
- five tiny baby peppered cories
- three 1.5" peppered cories

10L - calico fantail goldfish
- lionhead goldfish
- four albino cories
- four bronze cories
- one pleco of unknown species (he has stayed small in the six months we have had him but I have been unable to identify him and the jerk is camera shy ;-) )

When I have the bigger tank, the point is to move ALL of the goldfish species into it - in the meantime, I am trying to keep everyone healthy with larger than recommended HOBS (I have 20-40 gallon HOBS on the 10 gallon tanks) and weekly water changes. The water in all three tanks is testing good (for nitrites, nitrates, ammonia, etc.). All three tanks are good now that I learned NOT to mess with the pH and to keep up a good water change schedule :cool:. I am thinking that I am balancing things well considering and can keep it up until my hubby gets that stand and canopy ready. If I don't find a tank for a good price, I will get one made at one of the two shops that can do it.

Do you think that Bubbles is just missing Rainbow? And if so, will moving Rainbow into the 20 put things out of whack? They will all end up together eventually, but I was just trying to keep stress down by distributing the population between the tanks. Thanks again in advance for all of your advice.
 

L

LydiaGreen

Medium Fish
#2
Sep 16, 2004
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Forgot to add - I did start treating Bubbles with melafix (because it was all I had on hand and couldn't get anything else). Some of my research said that tetracycline was best because it is a broad spectrum antibiotic, others said maracyn or maracyn 2, another said to use Quick Cure.

Should I continue with the melafix for the 7 days? Or, should I do a water and filter change for two days and then utilize another product? If so, which one?
 

G

goldfish125girl

Large Fish
#3
Sep 23, 2003
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How did you cycle the tank bubbles is in. Did you use ammoina? What are the exact readings for the tank. Ammonia, and nitrite should be zero. Any other reading the water is not good yet. Your nitrate reading should be under 40, but it is better to be under 20 as fancy goldfish seem to do better in these conditions. The bigger tank is still over stocked as goldfish should at a minimum have 10 gallons per fish when small. 20 gallons when bigger. Now I know you know all this I am just trying to point out that any small ammount of ammoina or nitrite reading can cause some fish to have mild pop eye. I would not move rainbow to the tank until we are sure everything is ok. Adding medication can cause a goldfish tank to cycle over. But there is a really good medicated goldfish food that they do sell in canada. It is called medigold. I believe it is only available online at a place called mops??? I will check for you. I have used this stuff for years and it works really good. How often and how much are you doing for the weekly water changes. You might even need to be doing 2 times a week changes. If you can not get medigold tetracyclin and maracyn 1 and 2 both would work. Quick cure would not as it is for ich. Don't move any fish for a while. I have had some of my fish for over 15 years and my golds do fine seperated. You don't want to expose the other fish to meds if not needed. I would post the exact readings for ammoina, nitrite, and nitrate before adding any more meds.
 

L

LydiaGreen

Medium Fish
#4
Sep 16, 2004
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My ammonia and nitrite are zero, my nitrates are in that middle part between 5 and 10. I remove one 3 gallon pail of water from each of the 10s (so 30%) and I remove two 3 gallon pails from the 20 (also 30%). I also change my filter cartridges weekly. The size of the HOB is about 75% of the width of the tank so, I know I have more than adequate filtration. I like to breathe clean air, and I'm sure they would like the same consideration. Someone said you could rinse off the filter cartridges and reuse but, I'm thinking it wouldn't keep the water as clean.

I hadn't tested my pH in awhile, it's been fairly constant for the past nine months so, I haven't done it in a bit. But, then I went down to my LFS to find tetracycline, maracyn, or maracyn 2 (they stock NOTHING, I have to order online or drive four hours to the city) and the owner told me I should test my pH. The town has been doing some maintenance in the water treatment plant and the fish in the pond were acting funny so she tested her's and it's way out of whack. Came home and tested my pH - 6.6~! Not at all what they are used to. So, could that be causing mild popeye?
 

L

LydiaGreen

Medium Fish
#5
Sep 16, 2004
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Also - the lady at the LFS said not to mess with the pH since the fish will adjust in time, but I am thinking that such a SUDDEN change isn't good. They had no time to adjust to this and the town didn't announce the work so I did water changes without knowing! Can I do a water change with bottled water? I am clueless as to what the pH of spring water, distilled water, etc. would be. Should I buy a small amount of each, test the pH and then purchase what my pH would normally be (7.2)?
 

T

TaffyFish

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#6
Jan 30, 2003
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Hi Lydia,

do you know what your real tap water pH is? test a cup of water that's been left out overnight rather than a sample straight from the tap and compare that with the reading in your tank, then you might have to figure out why the pH is falling or becoming more acidic

Some fancy goldies have raised eyes, are you sure the fish has popeye, you're not jumping to conclusions? if you do it's normally caused by bacterial infections, parasite infestation or water quality problems. If you're sure your fish has it a broad spectrum antibiotic would treat it best.

You have lots of relatively new goldies here, any one of them might have brought an infection in with them, best to stop moving fish between tanks to prevent cross-infecting all the tanks.

Also you are risking your cycle if you replace the filter media every time instead of simply rinsing the cartidges clean in the tank water, you may be going over the top on the cleaning and removing the friendly bacteria along with the bad.

Finally, don't bother with bottled mineral water, dechlorinated tap should be just fine, regular changes are the key.
 

L

LydiaGreen

Medium Fish
#7
Sep 16, 2004
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Originally posted by TaffyFish
Hi Lydia,

do you know what your real tap water pH is? test a cup of water that's been left out overnight rather than a sample straight from the tap and compare that with the reading in your tank, then you might have to figure out why the pH is falling or becoming more acidic

Some fancy goldies have raised eyes, are you sure the fish has popeye, you're not jumping to conclusions? if you do it's normally caused by bacterial infections, parasite infestation or water quality problems. If you're sure your fish has it a broad spectrum antibiotic would treat it best.

You have lots of relatively new goldies here, any one of them might have brought an infection in with them, best to stop moving fish between tanks to prevent cross-infecting all the tanks.

Also you are risking your cycle if you replace the filter media every time instead of simply rinsing the cartidges clean in the tank water, you may be going over the top on the cleaning and removing the friendly bacteria along with the bad.

Finally, don't bother with bottled mineral water, dechlorinated tap should be just fine, regular changes are the key.
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Taffy - normally the pH of the town water is 7.2. The town is doing maintenance on the water treatment plant and this has caused a sudden drop in the pH levels. The town says the levels will come up again over time. My tank pH is also NORMALLY 7.2 but because of the sudden drop in the tap water, I did water changes (not knowing) and now have a sudden drop in my tank.

If you are rinsing the cartridges in the tank water, aren't you just putting the crud you have removed back into the water again?

I have had all of my fish (with the exception of the new rainbows that have never come into contact with Bubbles) for a mininum of 2 months and none have shown any problem. Wouldn't I have noticed a bacterial infection on the fancy golds in that amount of time?
 

T

TaffyFish

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#8
Jan 30, 2003
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I KNOW it's not the water quality.
Click to expand...
Maintenance eh? That sounds like the cause of your water problem then, whatever they've been adding to the water to "clean it up" - I would add double the dose of your dechlorinator until the pH stabilises again and let the fresh tap water stand for 24 hours, aerating in a bucket or tub if you can.

Sorry, when I say "tank water" for rinsing the cartridge, I mean the water you've just taken FROM the tank during a water change - and will throw away (or fed it to plants.) Of course you do not rinse filter media in the tank itself...LOL!
 

G

goldfish125girl

Large Fish
#10
Sep 23, 2003
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#10
How old is the oranda and is his cap more jeely like or is it a harder wen material. Some orandas get tiny little bubbles eyes. Very tiny. and they get a tad bit bigger as the fish gets older and grows. Dually my 13" red cap has these. I also had two calico orandas with the more jelly likle wens who had them also. It may be just genetics also.
 

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