Possible New Tank

[Cooter]

Good day all, I am looking at entering into the hobby of aquariums. I have a pretty decent LFS that seems to have some knowledge. Visitng with them, I have received some suggestions on a novice tank setup and was wondering what the general thoughts are.

Do to space constraints, I am limited to 30g, possibly 40g tall, so the tank is 29g, with stand (solid wood, not mdf or hdf), glass, rectangle, flourescent light hood (encased in plastic). Recommended additional equipment, HOT Magnum filter, I think 350, but not sure, Hagen 150 heater, pump, tubing and bubler, gravel, some sort of new tank chemical (to help stablize the tank), and a net. I have a quote of approximately $400.

I am wondering if these components are of quality and anything else that I might be needing/wanting within the first month of ownership. I was told that 1 week "settling/conditioning" is sufficient before adding up to 4 community fish, guppie or placet(sp). It was also recommended to have natural plants in the tank, to give some "life" to the decorations.

What are some thoughts on this?

 

[TLM4x4]

Hey there Cooter, welcome to the tank from a fellow oregonian *SUNSMILE* ...as for the equip. you referred to I personally havent had experience with buy I know many around here have. The one thing you can do for yourself that will go a long way in making this a successful adventure for you and the fish you eventually will have is to read, read, read! Just look around at the stickies that are posted around this site on how to set up a tank, cycle a tank, PLAN how to set it up ie buying equip. including tank/stand ,plants, fish. Go to the rate my tank section and look at the tanks, looking for the same size you are wanting to set up and how others have set theirs up. You will be SO glad you took the time to prepare before you actually plunk down the green backs and will feel you have at least the knowledge/confidence of a strong beginner to be successful. There are alot of very knowledgeable people here more than willing to spend their time answering what questions you have along the way. Good luck and Happy Fishkeeping!

 

[Lotus]

Welcome to the tank!

You will also need to get some dechlorinator for water changes, and a gravel vacuum for water changes. A largish (5 gallon) bucket for fish stuff is also a really good idea (for water changes and maintenance tasks). If you're getting bottom feeder fish, it's a good idea to get some kind of cave structure or rocks forming a cave for those fish to call "home."

If you're refering to a pleco/plecostomus for that tank, I would advise against a common pleco, and see if the store has smaller types that only get to 4 or 5 inches. The common types get way too big for most tanks. It's a good idea to shop around for fish you like the look of, then come home and research them (either in a book or online), so you can work out what you want, and what is compatible for your tank.

29g tanks usually come with insufficient lighting for anything but low-light plants, but hopefully your LFS will give you plants that will work in the tank.

 

[geekrockgirl85]

is this all one big kit, or is it like tank/stand plus picking the extras yourself?

if you are going to keep live plants, lighting is of utmost importance... what kind of lighting setup is in the hood? two 24" strip lights will give you 50 watts (1.72 wpg).. recommended wattage per gallon for live plants is usually at least two, depending on the plants you want to keep. if you decide against standard strip lights, you could get compact fluorescent, something crazy expensive like metal halide, or you could skip that and just stick with fake plants.

as far as your filter, i haven't had any experience with the magnum HOT myself, but i have heard horror stories about the maintenance of regular magnum canisters (flooding all over the floor during cleanings, among other things). however, i am sure there are people who think those filters are a joy to have too. i know you could get a power filter for less money (hagen aquaclear or marineland penguin for your size tank are about $20 each on petsmart.com as opposed to 47.99 for the Magnum compact HOT [250gph], and both have some space for you to put in some customized filter media). or if you want to spend the extra money, you could get a true canister instead of the HOT (i've heard good things about rena and fluval).

what kind of air pump are you thinking of using? you can probably get a store-brand one for $5-10, but many of them are noisy little buggers, so the extra money here is well worth it, especially if your tank is going into a bedroom or living room.i have a tetra whisper and am very pleased with its near-silence (the bubbles in the water actually make more noise than the pump itself!)

as far as "anything else", you will probably need to get some dechlorinator (maybe that is the "new tank chemical" they are talking about?), a gravel vac, a few new (never-been-soapy) buckets... but let me assure you that even when you think you've got everything you could possibly need, there's always one more reason to run back to the lfs.

$400 seems a bit pricey to me... but then again i don't know what solid wood furniture is going for these days... i guess that is where most of the cost comes in.

hope i've helped (and not been too confusing!)

EDIT:and i see that in my longwindedness i was beaten to the punch on several of my thoughts... but i agree with everyone else thus far i also suggest browsing the equipment forum, doing searches in the whole forum, and google searching for anything you're thinking about buying. but i am obsessive about reading up on things before i spend the $, so maybe that's going a little too crazy.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

I've got a normal magnum on my SW tank, and I don't quite get how it could flood during maintainance. They have shutoff valves for when you're doing stuff, so that the water doesn't come down the pipes when you open them up. Plus it is very, very quiet.

Solid wood stands are darn expensive. When I got a 46g bowfront wood stand, it was marked at half price-DOWN to $80. New tank chemical might be biospira-more expensive than dechlorinator.

 

[Cooter]

The $400 is tank, filter, gravel, air pump, bubbler, stand, heater; what I was told everything that I would need except decorations. Tank and stand are about $200 for the set. I am assuming that the tank is the most expensive part of the equation, but I did notice that it is a nickel, dime, quarter type investment.

Not sure on the lighting, but it seems that I could purchase a "grow" light that would fit the existing structure to allow for more light. I am not concerned with the lighting, all the rooms in the house have at least one window, if not more, so ambiant lighting will be there. I know not to place in direct sunlight, but indirect sunlight will also help, correct?

As far as gathering information, that is why I am here. I have read most of the stickies on this forum and many, many, many other websites, but the best information comes from real people, with real tanks. One thing I have not been able to uncover is what species work well together list. Guppies, tetras and X work, but do not put in Y or Z.

The main goal of the tank is to have a nice conversation piece and offer something other than watching re-runs on TV. My personal preference for species is very corlorful schooling fish, not all the same species, but not much bigger than 1-2" adult size.

If I have not provided enough information, please ask me a direct question(s) and I will be happy to fill in more information. You know what works and doesn't, so I am turning to the forum for advice. Would a picture of the planned location help?

 

[TLM4x4]

http://www.timstropicals.com/Compatibility/MatchResults.asp

here is a site that can help you find out what different species are/can be compatable with other species. Great to hear you have spent the time reading the stickies posted in the forum, that helps us know you are informing yourself and doing some research. Personally, I wouldnt attempt to put plants in the tank just yet. Growing live plants is a whole other topic..with a fresh tank, you are going to be very busy with water changes, testing...getting the tank to the point you can actually put fish in the tank. You may feel overwhelmed if you attempt to do it all at once...imo. I hope the link above helps you in your search for the types of fish you want to have in your new tank...good luck.

 

[Masta_Cheef]

Well, if you wanted something colorful, yet creative, you could maybe try for something like 10 ember tetras and 10 blue tetras. I think that would be pretty awesome myself.

Also, just keep in mind that indirect sunlight doesn't really do a whole lot for a tank.

 

[Lotus]

If you want colorful community fish, then tetras, rasboras and livebearers are probably your best choices. One large or two smaller schools of tetras would be nice, just make sure you get at least 6 of each type of tetra, or more (for a bigger impact). Livebearers such as guppies, platies and swordtails are nice additions, if you want them to breed, get a male and 2 or 3 females, if you don't want them to breed, get all males or all females (although they often come pregnant from the store). Rasboras are another kind of schooling fish that is peaceful and attractive. Cories are a nice, peaceful bottom fish that need to be in groups of 3 or more.

Sunlight is not good for a tank, as it can cause the tank to get too hot, and the light is hard to control. It's better to place the tank away from a window, or at least have blinds/drapes you can close.

 

[echoofformless]

Keep in mind that a lot of those package deals will include products that might not be the best choices. (For example you don't mention the brand of air pump, which could mean something so noisy you'll go nuts. Hagen heaters are questionable in reliability and heaters are a risky venture unless they're really good quality.)

You'd probably save a lot of money if you just bought the tank and stand from the shop (Which should really cost no more than 280 or so.) and then looked online for some deals on equipment that you know is what you will really want.


For example - if you look on Petsmart.com for a Fluval 204 filter, it's 67.99. In the store...the very same store...it's over a hundred bucks! Yes, it makes no sense...but that just goes to show how much money can be saved if you order online.

Just my two cents. Let's hope you save more than that.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

I'd bet the stand is the most expensive part.

Liveaquaria.com also has a good compatibility chart at:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/fwcompatibility_chart.cfm

 

[Masta_Cheef]

For example - if you look on Petsmart.com for a Fluval 204 filter, it's 67.99. In the store...the very same store...it's over a hundred bucks! Yes, it makes no sense...but that just goes to show how much money can be saved if you order online.

You guys do know that PetsMart does price matching, right? Bring in a printed page of the item, and just ask them to pricematch it.

 

[echoofformless]

You guys do know that PetsMart does price matching, right? Bring in a printed page of the item, and just ask them to pricematch it.

I was thinking about that....but then I started to think of how ridiculous the very fact is that it's their own store selling it for almost half price.

Good point though...maybe I'll do that sometime.

 

[Cooter]

Thanks for all the information. The stand and tank are about $220, the rest of the "package" is from items that are carried in the LFS. The do not carry a pre-made "starter" kit. The sales person, also a aquarist, compiled a list and prices of items that, with an hours worth of discussion, thought would work for what I wanted. The tank and stand are retail price, but everything else has a 10% new tank discount, so I don't think I will be losing much, when one adds in shipping costs, by purchasing at the LFS. Besides, this is a local business, not a chain or franchise, so I will give my money to the town that supports me. However, I will not jump on my soapbox, or in this forum, substrate, about purchasing items from local shops verses chains.

I was doing some more research and on another fish forum a review of the Marineland HOT Bio-PRO filter. The add says it is has all 3 filters, bio-wheel, mechanical and chemical. It is rated at 350 gph and, supposedly, the filter has an attachment to allow for gravel vacuuming and "bucketless" water changes. Big Al's has it listed for $52.99, with shipping, I am looking at around $62.00. Has any one had any experience with this model? I was thinking that an all in one filter would be good for a first timer, one less thing to purchase and figure out, but on the downside, if it goes, the tank goes.

Now for another question, and if needed, please repost in the correct forum or new thread, what manufactures make quality products for heaters, air pumps, filters, other mechanical devices needed for aquariums? For example, Hagen and Jager heaters. Which is preferred, which has had problems by other users, life expectancy of the equipment etc. The goal of the question is to determine if what is recommended at the LFS is a quality product, a model that has not shown realibility, or are they trying to pull it off the shelf so they can order something else.

 

[azndeath]

http://portland.craigslist.org/for/110411730.html

theres a great price !

plus with the extra 250 spend it on FISH !!

 

[azndeath]

OR MAYBE!!! EVEN THIS !!
http://portland.craigslist.org/for/109129260.html

 

[Lotus]

I too think it's a good idea to support your LFS. They take the time to help you, and give you the support you need. Many give good general advice to help you make the most of your hobby. I'd much rather give my business to someone who takes the time to explain products rather than point you to an aisle.

The HOT Magnum is a decent filter, and is pretty adaptable for different applications in fishkeeping. The water polishing micron filter is great for clearing up the water. I would say it's a good choice. Parts are also readily available, so if something breaks, it should be fairly easy to fix.

Jager heaters are good, I believe Hagen is generally a good brand. Marineland and Eheim generally have good reputations, too. Some brands do better at some equipment than others, so it's a good idea to ask for opinions before you buy (if possible). A good heater should last several years, although from what I read, the number is going down all the time... it used to be 10 years, now I think you're lucky if you get 3 years.

 

[Cooter]

It's a good idea to ask for opinions before you buy (if possible).

Thank you for the insight. I have 2 LFS, within 30 minutes of the house. One seems to prefer Hagen heaters and Marineland filters, the other is Jager and Eheim. I am taking this as to be similar to Ford v. Chevy. Both offer almost identical products, they both offer the same end result with virtually identical performance, it is just a few "cosmetic" differences between the two.

I am going to try and get to the LFS (we will call that one C, the one closet to home is K) that is 30 minutes away to visit one on one with their fish guy and see what is different than the one closer. And to clear up any possible confussion about the "buy local, support the local guy", I grew up and graduated from the town where C is and currently live in K's town, so I have split loyalities.

Are there any more opinions out there as to good, great, so-so, manufactures? What about thoughts on a 3 way filter verses 2 different filters (1 biowheel and 1 chemical/mechanical)? What about undergravel filters? Are they worth the effort for easy and convienance?

 

[Lotus]

I would stay away from the undergravel filters (UGF). They're actually more work than HOB or canister filters, as you have to take the tank apart once a year or so to clean them out (a big, messy job). From what I read, the bio filtration isn't really any better than other types of filter. I like the chart at the bottom of this article: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1979&articleid=2614

UGFs also don't really work if you want a planted tank.

For heaters, I would say the Jager is probably the best. For filters, many people say Eheims are the best, although they're also the most expensive.