Problems with Guppy

[jim.thornton]

Here is the history chronologically:

1. Bought a new 10g TopFin kit
2. Setup the tank, added the AquaSafe + liquid that came with the tank. I used RO water to fill the tank.
3. After running the tank for 7 days I added 2 guppies.
4. After a few days guppies started acting funny. It was like they were fighting to swim -- the tail was sinking when the fins stopped moving.
5. Did approx. 40% water change.
6. After another day or so a small white dot appeard on the body of the fish just before the tailfin.
7. Bought Ich Guard and put 1 tablet in the tank (first removing the carbon filter).
8. Waited a day and did another partial water change (about 25%)
9. Now the fish had more white spots and having a tougher time swimming.
10. In the evening I put another tablet in.
11. The next morning one of the two died. Brought some water to PetSmart and her water tested fine. I bought the test strips to bring home myself.
12. I did another partial water change (about 25%)
13. There were more white spots, I waited another day and added another tablet.
14. The next morning the other fish died. I removed the body, added another tablet.
15. Waited another day added the carbon filter back in.
16. Waited 2 more days with the carbon back in to filter out the medicine.
17. Bought 3 Zebra Danios.
18. 4 days later things were going fine so my kids wanted their guppies again. I bought 2 guppies again.
19. 7 days after adding the guppies. A small red spot appeared on the tail fin.
20. Now there are three large red spots on the end of the tail fin. The red is bright like blood.

I bought some general medication but I haven't added it in fear that the meds will kill the tank again.

The guppies are skimming along the top of the tank and the zebras are very active. Only one guppy is showing the red spots.

Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
PH 8.4 to 8.8 (** I've added 10 drops of PH down)
Hardness 25 (showing - soft)
Temp 82 (lowered heater tonight)

Is there anything else that I can do?

 

[bassbonediva]

First of all, your tank isn't even close to being cycled. A properly cycled tank (where there is nitrifying bacteria which converts ammonia into nitrItes and then from there into nitrAtes, as both ammonia and nitrItes are toxic to fish) has readings of 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrItes, and 10-20ppm nitrAtes. A stable pH is MUCH more important than a neutral or lower pH. Fish can adapt to any pH, as long as it is stable.

Ok, so here's what I would do. If you have the means, go to Petsmart and get a product called Tetra SafeStart. It costs about $20 for a small bottle of it, but it is well-worth it. Follow the directions on the bottle to the letter. This will help cycle your tank much more quickly and you won't have to return your fish to do so (as it sounds like this is a tank for children, I am recommending to keep the fish in there as returning the fish might cause more trouble than it is worth...if this was not a child's tank, I would recommend returning the fish...as a mother, I understand what it's like to deal with children who want their fish ). If you can't afford SafeStart, you're in for a long haul, during which you will probably lose more fish.

To cycle with fish in, you need to do at least every other day 30-40% water changes, preferably every day 30-40% water changes. You'll want to test your water every day to make sure your ammonia is going down to 0, you have nitrItes showing, then dropping to 0, and finally nitrAtes showing. The test strips are notoriously inaccurate, so as soon as you can (you can wait until you run out of them, if necessary) get an API Liquid Master Test kit. You can order a generic version of it on Walmart.com for about $24 shipped.

 

[jim.thornton]

Thanks for the quick response.

You are correct in thinking that this tank is for my children, which is part of the impatience for adding fish.

I had a saltwater tank years ago and I knew that it needs to cycle, but I didn't think that fresh water fish were as sensitive as saltwater fish. For some reason I was thinking that the cycle wasn't as long as with a salt water tank. Not to mention, I was asking the people at PetSmart and they said that there was enough time.

My kids are older, so bringing them somewhere is possible. However, I'm past the time that I can return the fish to the store. I was thinking of asking a pet store around the corner from me if they would temporarily take them while I let the tank cycle further. Do you think they might go for that?

 

[aakaakaak]

The danios will probably survive a cycle. You can darned near keep them in battery acid and they'll survive. (Okay, not really battery acid.) The Guppies are supposedly more sensitive from what I've read.

Also, if your guppies die, petsmart has a 14 day return policy. You should still be within that window if they die.

Asking people at the local fish store is usually a better choice than asking the PetCo people. Sometimes you get lucky, but not always. Someone on these forums mentioned they ask the representative of the store about their particular home tanks before asking legitimate questions. If they don't own any fish they probably won't be giving you sound advice.

 

[bassbonediva]

They might. Just depends on the store and how nice the people are. However, your cycle will probably go more quickly and be a little easier for you if you just continue the fish-in cycle that you've started. If you take the fish out of the tank, even temporarily, you'll lose your natural source of ammonia that will cycle the tank and will have to supply that ammonia artificially, whether through 100% pure ammonia (surfactant-free) or decaying organic matter (some people use raw shrimp or fish food, although the fish food method isn't nearly as efficient). Maybe you could go to that local store around the corner from you and ask if you could have some of their cycled media to speed up the cycle on your tank. That way you can keep the fish in the tank and you won't have to worry about finding a new home (even temporarily) for them.

Some freshwater fish are extremely sensitive to water parameters. Discus and German blue rams are two that come immediately to mind.

Oh, and rule #1 of fish-keeping...don't trust the Petsmart (or Petco...and a lot of times your local fish store) people!

 

[jim.thornton]

Thanks so much! I appreciate the help, it's amazing how much you forget over the years.

When you mention cycled media, are you referring to the sponge/fileter media from a fully cycled tank?

Do you think that I should do the bottle of SafeStart still? The $20 isn't an issue, if it will be best.

 

[bassbonediva]

If you can get the cycled media (which is exactly what you're thinking...the sponge/filter media from a fully-cycled tank), I'd fore-go the SafeStart as there'll really be no need for it. If the LFS (local fish store) won't let you have some media (which most of them will), then go ahead and get the SafeStart.

 

[jim.thornton]

Okay... The red seems to be rapidly spreading on the tailfin on the one guppy. I think it might have fin rot. I think I might at least take that one to the store in the morning as I do not have the facility for a quarantine tank.

Or, should I just treat the medicine to the whole tank? The medicine specifically says that it treats red spots on the fins.

 

[bassbonediva]

That's a tough question. I would say try medicating the tank, but try to get that cycled media as soon as possible. That will probably help quite a bit.

 

[aakaakaak]

Is there a chance that the spreading red is ammonia poisoning, and not fin rot?

 

[jim.thornton]

I'm not sure. The ammonia strip showed about 0.5

From what I have read thus far, ammonia poisoning presents as dark redish-black. This is bright red.

What do you think?

The back fin does look a LOT more jagged than when we got it. My son says it is the same, but I think it is more jagged.

 

[bassbonediva]

Any amount of ammonia (or nitrites for that matter) are going to cause ammonia poisoning. The more ammonia present, the worse the poisoning. Think of it as you being trapped in a room with no outside oxygen source. Even from the start of being trapped in that room, you're breathing CO2, which is poisonous and harmful, but as yet it's not lethal. But, it keeps building until it IS lethal. Same thing with ammonia and fish.

I would be willing to bet that once you get your tank cycled, your guppy will recover quickly, whether it's ammonia poisoning or fin rot (which can be caused by ammonia poisoning).

 

[littletankbigworld]

You need a liquid test kit as the strips are highly inaccurate. Use Prime dechlornator to remove ammonia. You could also add plants like java fern, java moss and hygrophila that are easy to care for, to the tank. Plants help to absorb toxins from the water.