Proof that biowheels are better than...

Somonas

Somonas

Superstar Fish
#1
Oct 22, 2002
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... sponges in Hang on Back filters. I had an aquaclear 300 and an emperor 400 running on a moderately stocked 77 for almost a year, when it came to jump start some new tanks, I pulled off one biowheel and put it in an Emperor 280.. the other tank got the AC300. Both are 30 gallon tanks

Anyway... 2 weeks later the AC300 tank is showing AMMONIA!! ugh. the E280 has nothing at all (equivalent fish load and feeding). As I said both filters were on the 77 for about 10 months

So........ there I have it - I prefer BIOWHEELS.
 

D

dattack

Large Fish
#3
Oct 22, 2002
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#3
Maybe the biowheel previously in the initial tank polluted the second tank and the aquaclear couldn't catch up in terms of bacterial proliferation.

A lot has to do with the bioload in each tank also.
 

D

dattack

Large Fish
#5
Oct 22, 2002
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It's really hard to tell unless both tanks have the same amount of rocks, same amount of plants, same amount of fish bioload. Bacterial proliferation and growth will reach a steady state system once it has time to establish. The biowheel filter maybe able to reach a steady state system faster than the sponge but it might be interesting to see if ammonia goes down when the sponge has time to establish itself.
 

B

bathtub

Small Fish
#7
Dec 31, 2002
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another intersting new alternative would be to try the new ehiem pro media in a bag instead of bio balls- you would get more surface area, better selectivity due to a more accurate hole size distribution than you could ever have with bioballs- but you would see an increased pressure drop....
 

D

dattack

Large Fish
#10
Oct 22, 2002
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One of the people I know is running experiments on cycling. No results yet.

But he used two 10 gallon tanks and just put in the same amount of either ammonia or nitrate. I forgot what the powder form is for what you can buy at your local pharmacy or hardware store.
 

Somonas

Somonas

Superstar Fish
#12
Oct 22, 2002
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Anyone can do that - the hard part is trying to quantify how much biological is on each particular media (sponge, and biowheel)

the only way I can see how to do it is like this -

get 2 brand new sterile tanks, each with different filter types.

Fish cycle them, with , let's say 4 goldfish in each tank, 8 fish would have to be exactly the same size. Feed them the exact same every day, do no waterchanges.

After a month or so you will have 2 tanks with theroretically the exact same bioload, thus the exact same amount of biological on each filter media (sponge in one, biowheel in the other)

now remove the fish, do a 100% waterchange, add 5ppm of ammonia and see how long it takes for it to dissappear.

hmm.
 

A

arowana fan

Small Fish
#13
Jan 2, 2003
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To be honest I don't care hoe fast a filter cycles my tank I base my filter choice on two things.

How the filter works on a cycled tank.

How much maintenance its going to be for me


I PREFER the aqua clear in both situations
 

C

colesea

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#14
Oct 22, 2002
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#14
Hmm...don't get me started...

A friend aquarist (also marine bio major) and I outlined a whole proceedure for testing whether or not glass cleaner (such as Windex) adds ammonia in sufficient ammounts to be detected if used on the outside of the glass. We are both of the opinion that Windex, no matter what people say, does not get absorbed through the glass. We've both used Windex on our tanks without any trouble what so ever. The experiment was to test that theory and put the age ol' question to rest for good.

Took us about a day to come up with the procedure and make sure it was statisically sound and had no sources of error. The money necessary to run the project cost more than either of us made. There was equipment I could've "borrowed" from the lab, such as all our ammonia, pH, conductivity, you-name-it meters, but neither of us could find a space large enough to line up 25 five gallon tanks, or had the time to take care of 125 danios. Not to mention the fact that research strains of danio cost more than the pet-shop ones.

Give me a day Somonas I could probably come up with a research project for your question.

Whether a bio-wheel is better than a sponge or not, I would probably have to say, yes, only for the simple fact that biowheels allow for more aeration of the bacteria, promoting aerobic metabolism, and that they do not get clogged with macroparticle debris the way a sponge does. Without adaquae flow through a sponge due to accumulation of debris, you get anaerobic metabolism, which will increase ammonia in the tank. I also like Marineland casings because they are black, which prevents algae growth in the tubes and filter box, where as AquaClear boxes are clear, and everybody who sees your tank gets a nice view of that crap, and algae growth.
~~Colesea
~~Colesea
 

A

arowana fan

Small Fish
#15
Jan 2, 2003
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No disrespect here but who cares about all these test and theories.

My pengiun got plugged all the time and overflowed the wheel then stopped turning rendering it useless for 12 hours while i was at work. Basicly 12 hours of no filtration.

My aqua clear on the other hand never quits and keeps the water crystal clear and my nitrates always below 10.

Therefore no tests needed the aqua clear works better for me..


These are all just my opinions
 

C

colesea

Superstar Fish
#16
Oct 22, 2002
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#16
Who cares about all these tests and theories? Why, all us scientist minded folk who are looking for PhD dissertations and ways to waste government grant money!<G>

Everybody has their own opinions as to what is the best filter, and everybody uses the filtration methods that fit their life and style. No one filter is really any better than the other if they all accomplish the same thing for the aquarist maintaining them. Even the crappiest filters (those would be Whispers in my opinion) can produce amazing results for the right aquarist.

It is just a matter of intellectual curiosity really. I don't think anybody is religious enough over their filter to go door to door looking for converts. If your brain isn't stimulated by it, okay. But then I think you're missing out on one of the hobbies greatest challenges...trying to seem smarter than the next aquarist<G>!

As far as measuring bioload...you could use dry weight? Weigh both the biowheel and the sponge before they are placed in the tanks. They ought to be as equal in weight as possible. Proceed with the experiment. At the end, remove the biowheel and sponge, dry them in an oven, and weigh them again. The one that weighs more would theoretically have the greater bioload. Unfortunately how would you get rid of the accumulated macroparticles and crap on the sponge without removing your bacteria?

~~Colesea
 

Somonas

Somonas

Superstar Fish
#18
Oct 22, 2002
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#18
Colesea I like the way you think. People all over the Internet have been questioning the effectiveness of biowheels versus The Sponge ever since biowheels came out (I do not know when).

Anyway, I am willing to put this experiment to the test. How do you think we should go about doing it, using my basic hypothesis, and method?

and a quick comment on your weight/biological capability comment, I would have to say a quick no, because biowheels do not accumulate stuff like sponges do, but if there was a way to effectively prefilter the water before it came into contact with the media being tested.

Which, opens up another can of worms

On the Emperor 280 you have a blue cartridge that normally filters the water but there is a secondary pump that delivers water to the biowheel. Do you recall if this water is pumped before or after it comes in contact with the blue cartridge? I think before, because whenever I start my filter the spraybars always come on before the actual waterfall output does.

If we wanted to do this correctly we would have to place a screen of some sort over the Aquaclear, so gunk that enters the filter is the same size as what enters the E280. Notice on the E280 the input strainer is smaller. We would have no filter media in the e280 box at all, just the wheel.

I think this could work, lets hear your thoughts.
 

B

bathtub

Small Fish
#19
Dec 31, 2002
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#19
How can it keep the nitrates below 10 unless it's got anerobic bacteria on it...
It should be breaking down ammonia to nitrite- then to nitrate, which will only be removed by plants, water changes or a denitrator with anerobics living in it...
Sorry to be an arse- bad day at work !
 

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