Question on Alkalinity & Nitrates

[Uncle Albert]

I've had a 30 gallon tank for nearly 3 years now - Never had fish before except as a kid. Anyways, after some trial and error of losing fish, talking to salespeople at the chain Pet Stores, etc. I thought I was stable.
Recently (in January) I decided to upgrade my filter to an Eheim 2215.
Did the 1st water change since setting up the new filter last weekend and lost all 3 catfish in the process so I've started to rethink everything. I'm pretty sure I know what happened with that, but my question to Forum members is regarding alkalinity and nitrates. I use the test strips to test ... Alkalinity is off the chart and always has been. Nitrates are also high ... Readings from the "QuickDip" strip:
Nitrate 200, Nitrite 0, Hardness 75, Chlorine 0, Alkalinity 300+, pH 6.8
I have only 4 fish in there now - 2 Cichilds (1 parrot and 1 blue peacock - both are fairly large) ... 1 of what I think is some type of Dwarf Gourami .. and the other a very small striped fish that I can't remember or identify.
Anyway, should I be concerned about the excessive levels? I've gotten so many conflicting answers the the pet stores that I decided to try this in pursuit of truly knowledgeable folks out there.

Thanks in advance.

UA

 

[Chris_A]

Hi UA! Welcome!

So I guess first off, how often do you do water changes? Judging by the NO3 and Alk, I'm going to guess not very . How large of a water change did you do?

Also how large exactly are the fish? And what scale (unit of measure) is the Alk in?

One thing to note about the strip tests, they *can* be incredibly inaccurate if they get any moisture in the container. Might be worth getting a double check with a more reliable system (friend or LFS). Would you be able to post your tap water spec's as well?

Chris

 

[Uncle Albert]

Reply

Not very often, I'm afraid. I have an incredibly busy schedule. Once every 6 weeks maybe and I usually do about a 60% water change ... use a gravel siphon first till it's done to about 40% of capacity.

The Cichilds are abut 4 inches ... the others 1-2 inches

The Alk is in KH ppm

 

[Whiskers]

welcome to the tank Uncle Albert. yes i would be concerned about your levels, they are important to maintain a good tank. the first thing i would suggest is to get a API master test kit which consists of tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph (i think it tests for another thing but not sure without going to look). follow the instructions to the letter and repost your readings.

i say this since having nitrate at 200 seem unreal cause i've never heard of such a high reading (maybe someone else has). the one thing i don't see in your post is ammonia reading, which is important to know as well. the main 3 readings ppl here would like to see is ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and we can go from there. ppl at the pet stores only want to sell you stuff but we here want you to have a great tank. you should be doing weekly water changes of about 25% to help maintain a good water quality but the only way to know how your water quality changes is with a good test kit.

do you have any pictures of your tank you can post? the more we see of your setup the better we can also help you. example, if you have 4" of gravel for substrait and don't vaccum it weekly it might hold a lot of fish poo and cause your nitrates to shoot up high enough that it will kill your fish. if your ammonia or nitrite goes above 1ppm your fish could suffer greatly and die.

do you know what cycling a tank means? do you have a maintaince routine of weekly water changes or vaccumings? do you have alage problems or any other issues? if you are, please state so (the more/detailed info the better) and that might also help us give you answers to your problems and what causes them. anyways im sure someone else will jump in and add to this.

 

[kristar1982]

. the first thing i would suggest is to get a API master test kit which consists of tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph (i think it tests for another thing but not sure without going to look). follow the instructions to the letter and repost your readings.

i say this since having nitrate at 200 seem unreal cause i've never heard of such a high reading (maybe someone else has).


QUOTE]

...it also measures high range ph.

I don't use test strips so I'm unfamiliar with your readings but i would suggest more wc's....maybe a 50% once a week if possible in order to keep those nitrates in check. Also, I'd recommend the api test kit. They run about $30 in my area and are worth it to have.

 

[Uncle Albert]

Reply II

Here's a photo

 

[Chris_A]

Ok, so your stocking *right now* isn't too bad. Just be aware that Parrot gets rather large and will out grow the tank.

So to solve your short term problem frequent water changes are about the only way to go. I would also start out small and increase the volume slowly. What you have going on is sometimes called "Old Tank Syndrome" and large W/C's can cause severe stress on the fish (as you already have seen with the loss of the fish so far). I would probably start out with 2 10% changes/ week for 2 weeks then up that to 2 20% for about the same. and keep going until your Nitrates are at least below 40ppm and ideally lower. Same with the KH and pH, it should be in line with your tap water.

I have to say I find this rather interesting because with a pH of 6.8 it doesn't *appear* as a "classic" OTS case so far as I can tell... Right now anyway, I'll have to see the tap results to get a better picture.

So far as long term to avoid the same problem... Gonna have to figure something out, W/C's and filter maintenance are about the only way. Please do keep in mind as well, when topping up water evaporation, all the disolved solids and majority of the other chemicals stay in the water. They don't evap as well. This is (more than likely) how you ended up with the high KH. Every time you add tap water (that also has the disolved solids) it keeps concentrating it. Actually I just picked up a book writen by a guy who worked in public aquariums for years. He said lots of public aquariums actually use their TDS (Total Disolved Solids which KH is a part of) to determine water change frequency when all other levels are good.

One last thing to note... Eheims are AWESOME filters... they just cause a few problems (as well as a lot of other canister makers) with the marketing of their filters. A lot of them say you can go 6 months between maintenance. Maybe so far as the mechanics of the filter maybe, but not so so far as the water quality. There seems to be a conception that once the filter has picked up WHATEVER that it's gone... Not at all so, it just sits "out of sight" and there for "out of mind" where it still breaks down and effects water quality. Our tanks are basically closed systems, the only things that get into them, we put there and the only things that come out are what we take out. The more filter maintenance one does, the more "crud" we take out. LOL, if it ain't in there anymore it can't effect water quality .

Sorry about that too, there are different ways of measuring alk, such as Meq/L, degrees KH and gr/galCaCO3. While those wouldn't be as likely with a number like 300, I still wanted to make sure .

Chris

 

[Uncle Albert]

Reply III

Thanks to all of you .. I will have other questions but for now on the water changes:

Should I use tap or distilled?

If tap, what should I use as a conditioner? a guy at Petsmart said to use Stress Coat only and let it come to room temp before pouring into tank.

Is it worth having the $30 test kit? (I'm picnhin' pennies these days)

UA

 

[bmoraski]

Thanks to all of you .. I will have other questions but for now on the water changes:

Should I use tap or distilled?

If tap, what should I use as a conditioner? a guy at Petsmart said to use Stress Coat only and let it come to room temp before pouring into tank.

Is it worth having the $30 test kit? (I'm picnhin' pennies these days)

UA

YES !
believe me its worth it !
and from what ive read here PRIME is the stuff to use
good luck

 

[Whiskers]

i know many ppl like PRIME to condition the water before it goes into the tank. yes buy the test kit, since with it, you can test your tap water and see what effect it can have on your tank. knowing the prams of your tap water will allow you to determine whether or not to use it or distilled. think of it this way, if your pinching pennies, to buy distilled water will cost you (in the long run) just as much or more as buying the test kit, but if your tap water test fine then that will save you some money.

everyone has different ways of doing water changes and sometimes different advice. my advice to you is to take a collection of everyones advice and find what works for you and your tank. some will treat water before it goes into tank, some will treat tank as they add water and if the quality of water you use is free of contaminates you might be able to get away (i might chatch some flack for this) with not treating water. it all depends on the quality of the water you put in. i've tested my well water and its just fine for my tanks and don't treat it with anything but thats just me. as far as letting the water warm to room temp, IMO it should be warmed to tank temp. if house is at 68f and tanks are at 78f+ then room temp might be a little cold for fish.

do you have well water or city water? if you have city water then there might be a couple more things you want to test your water for. i will have to let someone else add to that since i don't deal with city water.

oh and nice little tank you got there.

 

[Uncle Albert]

Reply

In response to one member's question: We have been having a lot of algae.
I was told to leave the acquarium light off at all times, and it would not return.

Any ideas?

Thanks again ..

UA