sick discus?

[Fuzz16]

im wondering if its a parasite but im not sure.
this has been ongoing since we first got him a few years ago but lately it has gotten to the point where he wont eat now unless i throw blood worms in there.
small white things, looking like what comes out of a zit after yo pop it (excuse the gross metaphor), are coming out around his head, leaving craters makin it look like he has HITH.
weekly wc's are done with 1/2 RO water 1/2 tap water. and no other fish are showing any signs.
when siphoning little white squiggly worms swim around, but i had those with my oscar and after research they were harmless...but maybe not?

this is my fav discus...matt its the mandarin if your wondering
ill try and get pictures later today. its hard with the tank glare...blah. annoying sun.

 

[Chris_A]

Ok, so first off if you have planaria I would seriously take a look at your feeding and maintenance regime. Not trying to say that you don't do maintenance, just that it might be a good idea to consider more at this point.

What size tank? (Edit: I just read your sig. That's some pretty heavy stocking for a 75 without SERIOUS daily maintenance)
Equipment spec's?
Water conditions?

Sorry, as you know, I'm new here. I really don't know anything about your tank .
Chris

Edit: I just read your sig. That's some pretty heavy stocking for a 75 without SERIOUS daily maintenance, especially for discus. What is your maintenance regime?

 

[unwritten law]

i thought planaria was a harmless worm that is just caused by over feeding.... maybe not towards discus?

 

[Fuzz16]

it is a harmless worm to all fish...it can also be cause by driftwood being brought into the tank and its on it.

the tank is not really overstocked as long as yo know what yo are doin and dont overfeed and have good filtration. overstockin is easy to do and keep the fish healthy as long as yo are strict on everythin else...

i need to get a picture...atm i am not in the best of moods to mess with the computer...and may be movin out. so it may not matter at all about the fish.

 

[Chris_A]

They are. It's the "caused by over feeding" part that concerns me. I'm not entirely sure but if I remember correctly (YEARS since I delt with Discus) it's probably a case of Pin-worms, sorry I forget the proper, non slang term. There is a specific dosing regime that involves metronidazol medicated foods but I loaned out that book and never got it back. Gonna have to do some searching.

Maybe someone else has it. It's called Discus Health by Deiter Untergasser. I believe the ideal medication was Fubanol 5% (could be the wrong spelling) but I was NEVER able to find it... probably some med used in Germany.

I am SO sorry! I'm unbelievably rusty on this stuff.

Chris

 

[Chris_A]

Oh ABSOLUTELY! if an overstocked tank is maintained properly there is no problem. It's just kinda like walking a tight rope though. and the planaria lead me to believe something is out of whack.

Fuzz, hope you're OK...

 

[Fuzz16]

so tanks are all probably coming down cause i am moving. i think charlee and i are out tuesday along with the cat and 3 buns. tanks will stay up if my dad wants them but i wont be takin any wit me except maybe my 12g. no room for my 75g... which is sad cause i have had these discus since most of them were 2.5" big two-three years ago...and my BGK...i will miss him most.

and chris...ive had a breeder who gave the discus to me tell me my tank is fine along with people on the forum. the smaller discus are being sold anyways when thier bigger. fed twice a day. some colorbits in the morning and at night a cube of beefheart and twice a week bloodworms instead of beefheart. thier not fed very much.

him before: (mind he has always had these since i got him but lately he has been going down hill)

and now: sorry for the bad pics...everyone kept moving in front of me begging.

o...and my BGK has this on him...i feel so stupid right now.
it was bigger but has been gettin smaller but also more white in color.
looks more like a scrape but i dont know.

 

[Fuzz16]

and my babies...just cause i can...

 

[Chris_A]

Hey, if it ain't broke don't fix it 'till it is.

Ok, so it might just be the pic's but if I HAD to make a guess... Lymphocystis. It's a virus and really there isn't much you can do about it. Some people scrape the growths off and rinse the wound with an appropriate antiseptic but unless you have a vet that handles fish in your area that might be problematic. Really it should be done with the fish tranquilized. Plus all the books I have listing antiseptics and tranquilizers are archaic so I couldn't even suggest anything practical, most of them arn't even made anymore... to my knowledge.

For the BGK, he wouldn't happen to hang out by the heater would he? If it's not a burn I'm not sure.

But, all that is mute if you won't even have them after tuesday. Sorry to hear that.

Chris

 

[Fuzz16]

a burn on the BGK would make sense. that or a scratch from the driftwood he always hangs around...he is not very shy in the least

i sent an email to the breeder i got him from. ill see what he says.

dont know what ill do with the fish yet.

 

[Lotus]

If the worms are on the fish, I'd guess anchor worm (Lernaea). You won't see planaria on a fish.

Treatment involves removing the worms with forceps and treating with meds, if that's what you have.

 

[Fuzz16]

but its not like a worm worm...

like i said earlir its like the core yo pop out of a zit...it doesnt move or anything and it comes out of the fish causing a crater where it does.

 

[punkrockfish]

sounds like hole in the head. shows up a lot in larger south american cichlids (discus and angelfish mostly), especially as they get older. not a lot is known about it for either cause of treatment. we are currently fighting something like that at work in my discus/angelfish tank. the loss of appetite is a symptom, and one of the most common treatments is medicated food, which is ineffective once the fish stops eating. Vitamin C is a popular way to fight the disease, and we are making a vitamin c gel to feed to our fish. however, for the home aquarium, not sure if that is cost effective/practical. There really isn't a lot you can do, especially once he stops eating.

 

[Chris_A]

That's what I thought too at first (HLLE), but it really doesn't fit. HLLE is simply a crater as opposed to having a growth first.

Definitely not Anchor Worm or Fish Lice (Argus), you would normally not see several on only one fish in a tank of many.

So I did a little looking and Baensch Atlas 1 has an old school treatment for Lymphocystis that could be an option. Its a swab with Iodine tincure. Do you have access to that book? I'd like to type up the whole section because there's a bit more info that you should read, but I'm not sure what the forum rules would be for that (copy rights and all ). If you can access that book mine is the 6th printed edition in paperback and the info is on page 932 at the bottom. Failing that, and assuming you're not a stalker (kidding ), I would be willing to e-mail the info directly. Sorry, my e-mail has my last name in it.

I just want to clarify something, I was not trying to imply Planaria were the issue with the fish. It's just been my experience that they can be a marker for less than ideal water conditions because of over feeding which can cause chronic, low level stress. As I'm sure most know CLLS is the number one cause of disease in aquariums. Just like with humans, stress lowers ones immune system. BUT! Fuzz has assured that is not the case here... good enough. Even if I wanted to push the issue (which I don't), would it change anything? (rhetorical question BTW) *celebrate

Chris

 

[Fuzz16]

i though HITH was just the craters...no white things?

and he has always had it...even when he was a baby...

i am bumping the tank back up to twice weekly wc's...kinda slacked on it cause baby and work and i cant lift anythin still from havin her...stupid drs dont know how to deliver a baby without not ruinin a mom

 

[Fuzz16]

i feel really fish stupid atm...i dont work in aquatics anymore so dont research and talk about fish like i used to...makes me wonder why i still do the hobby.

but anyways chris...if yo want to i dont really have time to go find a book with everything... fuzzybunnytismine16@hotmail.com



and he will eat blood worms but thats it...

 

[Chris_A]

OH do I EVER know what you mean lol . I was actually thinking about tearing down all but my mantis tank a few months ago. It had all become stagnent for me. Plus I don't have the discount of working at a LFS anymore .

K cool, I'll get that typed up asap. Might not be until tonight though. I've got an appointment with my Oncologist in a few hours other wise I would get it to you sooner... Sorry.

I had a breeder tell me he would NEVER (he was very adament lol) feed blod worms to his discus. Said it was like candy to them and sometimes they would refuse everything else. In this case... again, not broke - don't fix. At least he's eating.

Chris

 

[Fuzz16]

hm...blood worms and black worms are all my wild will eat so i dont have much choice but to feed the tank that to keep him alive

and my lps discount sucks....25% off on everything...and everything there is overpriced cause my manager is stupid...which i tell him often but he likes me so he wont ever fire me...ha.

 

[Chris_A]

Ohhhh, I LOVE wild type Discus! what type? do you know the collection location? I think my fav is Japura Green's.

Yeah, that's pretty common with the wilds. Could try mysis shrimp, I've not had many wild caught fish refuse them . Pescine Energetics packages Freshwater mysis out of Lake Okanogan (sp?) here in Canada. They are MUCH larger than the marine ones Hakari packs. Plus they don't have the salt content which is GREAT for soft water fish.

At the time I was getting Cost +5%. Let's just say that's where my shed FULL of equipment comes from... When I was thinking of getting out of the hobby I was going to sell everything for $4500 and I figured it was a steal, I had it worked out roughly at $8500 to $9000 retail (and that's only the stuff I'm not using). Then I thought "what if I want to get back into it again some day?" DEFINITELY don't want to replace all that lol.

Chris

 

[Fuzz16]

no idea where she came from...she was listed as a wild green though. i am not very familiar with the wilds...i got her at work and she never started eatin very well...but i was tryin to "save her" (sometimes i regret spending the money though ) all the discus were gettin sick from a bad shipment and one wild had already died...she had just come in and i took her and QT her and she was eating bringe and blood worms. but i think its harder for her now havin to compete wit the other fish

ill get a vid of her when i throw in blood worms.

here is a pic of her...she is gettin skinny last couple months and darker. she doesnt have the nice colorin like she used to...

how awesome the tank used to be