Sick Koi

[Kyrol]

First time poster here found you guys while looking around for what could be causing my issues.

I set my tank up while looking for fish and cycled it and after adding fish 2 months ago it started a 2nd cycle and this is where it’s going crazy on me. In addition to what is posted on my signature about my tank I had 2 butterfly koi in the tank as well and they began to get patched of what looked like mucus on there bodies.

The cycle of the tank finished and cleared up good reading from the water testing kit in about 3 days and the fish were still sick. At the recommendation of the pet store I got some anti fungal meds and the fish died 24 hours later. Everything seemed fine till 2 days ago and my current yellow and orange ogon began flicking at rocks.

It now looks like the orange one is suffering from a rapid/aggressive case of fin rot and the yellow one would rather want to live on land then in the tank at this point(hes jumping at of the top of the tank so often and with such force he now has an open wound on the top of his head). I’m using aquarium salt and a medication called QuICK Cure. That is supposed to help with all of the above symptoms and it’s going on day 2 of the treatment without any visual results anything anyone can think of that could help me out?

The fish are all at or near 3 inches waiting till they get about 5-6 before I place them in the pond. API fresh water master kit is showing everything is good ph is a hair base but other then that perfect water is crystal clear.

 

[roark fishies]

Have you tested for ammonia and nitrites? It kind of sounds like the tank is not fully cycled. If you have ANY presence of Ammonia and nitrites then the tank is not fully cycled and that could be causing the problems.
Also, Quick Cure is a harsh med and mainly used for ich. Do they have white grainy spots on them?
I don't know too much about koi so I'm hesitant to give too much advice. But I do suggest you test for ammonia and nitrites and also a do a large water change (30-50%). Then get back with us with test results. Sorry I couldn't be much help. You should get some more replies.

 

[Kyrol]

update 1

Today is day 3 of the treatment. The yellow ogon ate for the first time in 4 days!! He’s still flicking a little but seems to be on the mend.

The orange one isn’t looking 2 hot. The fin rot is eating him alive I’m going to be getting something for it tonight and pray it fixes what’s wrong with him. He’s not eating unless the flakes come at him.

Today is day 3 so tomorrow I’ll be doing a 50% water change I’m hesitant to change ph till I figure out / purge what’s in the tank out of tank. Ammonia is almost showing at 1ppm u can see a slight tinge of color change, nitrites are at 1ppm. Ph is at 8.0 I need to get some acidity in the tank to drop it down to the 6.8 7.4 as recommended.

I went with quick cure based on what happened with my other 2 Koi that have joined the aquarium in the sky. It was such a rapid and invasive fungus/parasite it killed them in just under 3 days. The local store recommended it due to the speed in witch it killed the fish. I had done a major water change brought on a cycle then bang two sick fish. From what I read online and from what I was told in the store this was the best medication I could get at that point in time for the current symptoms my fish were showing.

They also recommended a ¾ strength first dose 2nd dose full strength then going with a few extra drops for the 3rd to kill what ever free floating stuff in the tank is there then cleaning the entire filter assembly 50% water change carbon back in the tank then watch the fish for anymore problems. Treat with another course of full strength as needed.

Recommendations for a good scale/fin slime coat regenerator if there is such a thing?

 

[roark fishies]

I don't THINK Quick Cure will help fin rot. I would use Pimafix for the fin rot.

OK, here's what I think. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Leave your ph alone at this point. If you try to change it that will just be one more stresser for them. And really alot of people on here will tell you a STABLE ph is more important than the actual number. So I wouldn't really worry about the ph at all. At least for now.

With your ammonia and nitrites both at 1ppm I would do 50% water change asap. That would put the readings at .50. Then do another tomorrow. This is probably the cause of your problems. The ammonia is burning them which is why the one is trying to jump out. Nitrites rob them of oxygen. My bet is that you don't even need the Quick Cure. You just need good clean water. Your tank is not fully cycled and your gonna have to do LOTS of water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites at more tolerable levels until they are completely gone. I really think partial water changes are the answer to your problem. Quit the Quick Cure. Add Melafix or Pimafix for the fin rot. And keep testing the water so you know what your readings are at all times then do water changes accordingly.

There are a few products for slime coat regeneration. Start Right with Allantoin or Tetra AquaSafe both help with that. Most of your water conditioners have stuff for slime coats. Do you use any type of water conditioner? You need to if you use tap water for water changes.

phew. lots of info. BTW, welcome to mft! Keep us updated.

 

[Kyrol]

I’m using tap water I have 2, 5 gallon buckets that I treat with aqua safe then have an air pump tube dropped in the both of them. Let them sit for about a day before I do water changes and I normally do about 10 gallons every 3-4 days because of the amount of poo these things produce.

I would normally agree with high ammonia and nitrites but from everything I have ever heard these are trace amounts and granted I haven’t had carbon in the tank for over 4-5 days now is nothing out of the ordinary. I could be wrong though on that point. Also I had to let the medication sit in the tank and do it’s stuff.

Melafix is now in the tank when I got home from work I put the carbon back in set my alarm pulled the carbon out water changed and added it. Now the house smells of vapor rub lol. I don’t know how to explain what at least the yellow one is doing other then what I know as the death glide. He has a spaz attack either tries to jump out of the tank or slams into everything in the tank then floats around like he’s dead then goes back to normal. I guess my trying to jump out of the tank wasn’t overly descriptive of the symptoms.

I’m kind of at a loss for what is causing it or how to fix it all my research has pretty much gotten me know where other then if it’s not a fungus it’s a parasite, if it’s not a parasite it’s something that needs treated with antibiotics. If only you could ask your fish what’s wrong and make it better.

Fish store said melafix was the way to go due to the course of meds I had put in the tank he didn’t recommend primafix because it is supposedly quite a bit stronger then melafix. Any information or personal experience with the 2 meds?

 

[roark fishies]

Poor fish. He does sound like he's on "his last leg." Have you checked the goldfish forum on here? They may be able to help you more since they are familiar with goldies.

Have you tested your tap water before treating for the ammonia and nitrites? You could be right of the tap water having trace amounts. I've heard of that. There are certain products that make them less toxic like Ammo-Lock for the ammonia. And Amquel for the nitrites. At least I think that's what it's called. I've never used either. There are old threads around here with discussion on these products but you'd have to do some digging around.

Pimafix is stronger than Melafix. In more serious cases of bacterial problems I suggest Pima. I don't know about mixing it with Quick Cure though. I've never done that. I think Mela is too mild unless used at the very first signs of problems. It's not gonna help truly aggressive fin rot. At least it hasn't in my case.

ok, I just done a quick google on Amquel. Sounds like Amquel+ would be good for you. Check this out:
Kordon LLC - Kordon - AmQuel+

 

[roark fishies]

I found this link on what of Lotus' posts. Maybe this will help.
Koi and Koi Ponds Water Gardeners Goldfish and Koi Nishikigoi Koi Filtration Pond and Koi Pumps Koi and Pond Supplies

 

[Kyrol]

update 2

Orange Ogon died this morning.

Yellow Ogon seems to be about checked out. If a current hits him he goes tumbling threw the tank so I’m resolved to let him finish off his last day or two in peace. If it gets to bad I’m gonna ice bath him and not let him suffer anymore then he is.

 

[Kyrol]

last chance for yellow

None of the treatments are having any effect on him so I'm pulling out the last chance ditch effort to save the yellow one. Going to do a 1 part hydrogen peroxide 10 parts water 30 second dip on him and see how it goes. If he degrades any more it’s ice batch time.