I am having a problem keeping snails and hermits alive some of them are doing fine but i lose about 70 percent of them. They do real well for about a week and then they die. I have a sand sifting star that is doing great but for some reason the majority of my snails and hermits have died. My water tests are all good and my lfs store says that they do not have a very long life span but i am sure it is longer than a week my fish are all doing great its just the snails and hermits i was wanting to put an urchin of some type in there or maybe a sea hare but i know they are sensitive to water quality and i don't want them to die. But my water tests fine by my tests and the lfs store tests any ideas?
Snails and hermits ??
- Thread starter Yazoo1970
- Start date
They are very intolerant of ammonia and nitrates.. and temperature. I lost a couple during the heat wave..well i lost all my turbos except one, and before that had 0 non-accidental fatalities ( like powerheads incidents ). Turbos are from Mexico, and they thrive in much cooler water than in my tank during summer. I read something about it , and beside their size and bulldozer way to graze, it was the most important factor of "why-they-suck" in our tanks. First i noticed a couple of them ( sold as astreas ) dead on the bottom..then ammonia begun to rise...looks like my tank wasn't ready to handle that..and finally i only had 1 left out of 14 ! But...my nassarius and bumble bees are ok and trying to make babies. I had hundred(s) of stomatellid snails, they came from live rock, and now i don't need other snails.. i don't plan to add turbos or astreas anymore...they lasted 7 months to 1 year, wich isn't that bad, but if they can't handle the heat, why bother. You say your params are good. Can you post them ? Do you have any big temp swings ?
another reason would be they are starving..if you don't have algae on the glass ( for the snails ) or encrusted algae on the rock ( hermits )...can happen too if you have too much cleaners. Also, some hermits will try to take out the snails to get their shells. My hermits are in my caulerpa's sump...no snails there except stomatellids
My nitrites are 0.1, nitrates 0, amonia 0, ph 8.2, i have about 80 lbs of live rock in the tank and i do have brown algae on glass not alot but should be more than enough food wise my temps run between 78 and 80 my tanks in a sunroom but we keep our air temp low in the house so i think it keps the water temp lower i have never seen it over 80
even at 10 they are fine usually. You could begin to worry when it's 35 and up..but still it takes time to kill 'em. Well if you absolutely need some snails, you could try like 2 nassarius and check 'em before you add others. Maybe there's something toxic in your tank ?! Do you acclimate slowly new comers ? Some LFS have a very low salinity level, due to the manager's greed..if they jump from 1.018 to 1.024 it isn't good for 'em either.
I do drip acclimate them i will have to see what the lfs salinity is at mine is 1.023 right now my nitrates are up a little bit because its been about a month and a half since my last water change i was planning on doing that this weekend. What could be toxic in there thats not killing my fish too? i know copper is bad but that has to be introduced into the tank right it does not get in there naturally right.
yup but with only 0.1 and in SW..not super toxic
found that on wetwebmedia :
Mysterious Snail Deaths...
Dear Reefers,
<Scott F. your reefer tonight!>
I have a 2 foot all glass tank which I acquired second hand over 2 years ago. I use it as a permanent quarantine set up and it has been running for over 18 months, with a water change each week using 7 litres of water taken from my reef system. The tank contains some live rock with Xenia, but no sand. The hardware in the tank is an Eheim pump, attached to an outside canister with sintered glass ring medium for adaptable bio function, and a Polyfilter pad put in as a precaution. There is also a submerged heater connected to an exterior thermostat. It is lit by 2 x T8 Triton tubes with reflectors. I am a natural aquarist, so no skimmer on either system.
<This sounds like a wonderful system to "harden" newly arrived livestock and provide a period of time for you to observe your fish before placing them in the display. However, in my personal opinion, a quarantine system need not be a permanent feature. It's a bare (with the exception of some inert materials such as PVC sections for new fishes to hide in) and temporary; you simply set it up when required and break it down when done. The biggest problem with a "permanent" quarantine system, IMO, is that any diseases brought in with new arrivals can remain in a tank with substrate and live rock, and pass them on to the next batch of fishes. In addition, it is somewhat problematic to treat sick fishes in such a setup, which can render many medications less effective, literally "absorbing" some. Please re-think this setup.>
At present there are a few Stomatella snails, Gammarus shrimp, some Spionid worms and a few small annelid worms. There used to be some small Dove snails, but these appear to have stopped breeding and died out. My problem is that I have lost a number of snails during quarantine, the most recent being a large Trochus after about 3 and a half weeks. I have had a similar snail in the main system for over a year, and the other Astrea and Cerith snails in the main system are also all early additions over a year "old".
I was about to order some additional snails from a UK mail order supplier, Ultimate Aquatics, and I noticed their warning that these snails are VERY sensitive to copper.
<True, many snails are sensitive to copper (yet another reason not to utilize them in any system destined to quarantine/treat fishes!) and other medications.>
Could there have been a residue of copper in the all glass/silicone tank when I acquired it, and if so could there still be a harmful level of copper after all this time. If so, why did it not harm the early snail additions during their quarantine?
<It is possible, but if the system has been running for some time, it seems unlikely to me that residual copper could be continuing to leach in levels that could be toxic. Keep in mind that many snails are sensitive to environmental changes, and careful acclimation is required to avoid losses.>
If not, what could be the difference between the main and quarantine system which is apparently causing snail fatalities? All the measurable parameters are identical, and fishes, corals and hermits have all been through the their 4 week quarantine without problems. I do use a long acclimatization period of up to 2 hours for snails, and I make sure that the snails are not pulled off the surface but teased off. There is food in the form of diatoms on the glass and rock as well as the usual turf algae.
<Could be a lot of possibilities, such as a disease or some sort of toxin., or even a predator of some sort that has escaped detection. I've seen such a phenomenon before with snails, and it's hard to say what the real answer is. It can also be source or stresses the animals encountered along the chain of custody from reef to hobbyist.>
I would really appreciate your advice on what precautions to take before I order my next batch of snails and try again..
Regards,
Eric B
<Well, Eric- I think I'd do two things: First, if you're suspicious about copper levels in the system, I'd encourage you to test for copper in the tank water. Also, you might want to consider acquiring the snails from a different source, to see if there is any correlation between the source and the problems that you are encountering. With a little experimentation and the process of elimination, you might just solve the mystery! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
found that on wetwebmedia :
Mysterious Snail Deaths...
Dear Reefers,
<Scott F. your reefer tonight!>
I have a 2 foot all glass tank which I acquired second hand over 2 years ago. I use it as a permanent quarantine set up and it has been running for over 18 months, with a water change each week using 7 litres of water taken from my reef system. The tank contains some live rock with Xenia, but no sand. The hardware in the tank is an Eheim pump, attached to an outside canister with sintered glass ring medium for adaptable bio function, and a Polyfilter pad put in as a precaution. There is also a submerged heater connected to an exterior thermostat. It is lit by 2 x T8 Triton tubes with reflectors. I am a natural aquarist, so no skimmer on either system.
<This sounds like a wonderful system to "harden" newly arrived livestock and provide a period of time for you to observe your fish before placing them in the display. However, in my personal opinion, a quarantine system need not be a permanent feature. It's a bare (with the exception of some inert materials such as PVC sections for new fishes to hide in) and temporary; you simply set it up when required and break it down when done. The biggest problem with a "permanent" quarantine system, IMO, is that any diseases brought in with new arrivals can remain in a tank with substrate and live rock, and pass them on to the next batch of fishes. In addition, it is somewhat problematic to treat sick fishes in such a setup, which can render many medications less effective, literally "absorbing" some. Please re-think this setup.>
At present there are a few Stomatella snails, Gammarus shrimp, some Spionid worms and a few small annelid worms. There used to be some small Dove snails, but these appear to have stopped breeding and died out. My problem is that I have lost a number of snails during quarantine, the most recent being a large Trochus after about 3 and a half weeks. I have had a similar snail in the main system for over a year, and the other Astrea and Cerith snails in the main system are also all early additions over a year "old".
I was about to order some additional snails from a UK mail order supplier, Ultimate Aquatics, and I noticed their warning that these snails are VERY sensitive to copper.
<True, many snails are sensitive to copper (yet another reason not to utilize them in any system destined to quarantine/treat fishes!) and other medications.>
Could there have been a residue of copper in the all glass/silicone tank when I acquired it, and if so could there still be a harmful level of copper after all this time. If so, why did it not harm the early snail additions during their quarantine?
<It is possible, but if the system has been running for some time, it seems unlikely to me that residual copper could be continuing to leach in levels that could be toxic. Keep in mind that many snails are sensitive to environmental changes, and careful acclimation is required to avoid losses.>
If not, what could be the difference between the main and quarantine system which is apparently causing snail fatalities? All the measurable parameters are identical, and fishes, corals and hermits have all been through the their 4 week quarantine without problems. I do use a long acclimatization period of up to 2 hours for snails, and I make sure that the snails are not pulled off the surface but teased off. There is food in the form of diatoms on the glass and rock as well as the usual turf algae.
<Could be a lot of possibilities, such as a disease or some sort of toxin., or even a predator of some sort that has escaped detection. I've seen such a phenomenon before with snails, and it's hard to say what the real answer is. It can also be source or stresses the animals encountered along the chain of custody from reef to hobbyist.>
I would really appreciate your advice on what precautions to take before I order my next batch of snails and try again..
Regards,
Eric B
<Well, Eric- I think I'd do two things: First, if you're suspicious about copper levels in the system, I'd encourage you to test for copper in the tank water. Also, you might want to consider acquiring the snails from a different source, to see if there is any correlation between the source and the problems that you are encountering. With a little experimentation and the process of elimination, you might just solve the mystery! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Thanks for the thread kahluaZzZ i am going to try a few of these things to see if they help what is sowierd is i put 10 snails in 6 of them died in the first week the other 4 appear to be extremly happy it just makes no sense maybe the stress comment has something to do about it. How sensitive are urchins and sea hares i guess i hould practice what i preach and be patient and figure out this problem before i blow any money
well i forgot to mention my sump is filled with caulerpa, and problems started with the heat wave and i've put caulerpa at the same time. Caulerpa can release nasty stuff than can kill inverts when the go sexual..all the crap that it absorbed is released..you have some ? Also it raises ph
I'll switch to chaeto as soon as possible..far less dangerous
I'll switch to chaeto as soon as possible..far less dangerous
I have no caulerpa in my tank even though i have had the tank over a year now i am still learning every day and have not taken the step to caulerpa yet i am trying to be patient and slow but it is very hard as i see things all the time i want to add but then things like these snails and hermits dyeing remind me why i need to be slow i guess