Someone please help!

cris

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Jul 20, 2004
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#1
I am new at this and need a little help!!! I have had a freshwater tank for several years now and trying to start with a saltwater tank. I have already noticed it can be a little expensive, so I wanted to make sure I could be successful at it before purchasing a larger tank--so I am using a ten gal...... I have used my filter from my old tank---i have taken out my airstone....because it was creating salt creep........the tank has been up for several months now---I am using distilled water and making my water changes---all my levels are fine except for my nitrites---I have managed to kill a few snails----and a damsel----I need help on what I am doing wrong????? Now, I have about 8 lbs if live rock and no fish...
Should I be changing my filter's carbon??????
Can I kill what is on my live rock too????

Can someone help????
 

S.Reef

Superstar Fish
Dec 1, 2003
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#2
Well...it would have been a little smarter to research. Basically anyone would say you started to small. But since its already up and running lets see how we can help.

First what kind of filter are you using? Are you using a protein skimmer? What is the salinity of your tank?How long ago did you add the live rock? Was it cured? How often do you do water changes? These things are really important in determing how to help.

If you are using a UGF get rid of the carbon. Those cartridges are not meant for saltwater use. If you are using some knd of power filter make sure the carbon is meant for saltwater. You can replace it once a month. On to your last question, yes you can kill the organisms on your live rock. However those organisms are quite hardy and probably won't die unless the conditions in the tank are very inappropriate.


Sam Reef
 

cris

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Jul 20, 2004
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#3
well, I did research and did talk to a few people who said it wasn't easy but possible!!! Also, I don't know of anyone who has a saltwater tank so I lack the support of an experienced hobbiest----but I can follow directions--------

So I thought I would try it and didn't want to spend a lot just to see if I would enjoy it as much as the freshwater........but, so far am not having any luck......I would love to make it work----with what I have for now--

All levels are fine except my nitrites----salt levels, ph, alkalinity, nitrate.....all check out ok.........

I have made several water changes----used distilled water.....

I bought the 2 lbs of live rock from a local pet store---several months ago--then added snails---since then the snails have died.....yesterday I went back and bought a large live rock----6 lbs........

my filter is not a UGF.......it hangs on the side with the replacable store bought filters.....nothing fancy.......store bought and used with my freshwater---should I have used it without the cartridge with the carbon????????

I took out my bubble bar b/c of salt creep----now I have no plants, no fish, no snails----empty except water and live rock..................................oh and one fake plant.....

I do not know what a protein skimmer is---so I guess I don't have one----what kind do I need?
 

S.Reef

Superstar Fish
Dec 1, 2003
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#4
Okay...there is a 50/50 chance your rock is cured. I would wait 2 weeks to be on the safe side before adding fish. Don't do anymore water changes until you get fish.

You have a power filter. I would not use the cartridge right now. Personally I would add one when you get fish. Make sure it contains no phosphates.

Finally a protein skimmer is a form of filtration. For a tank of your size. Once you get fish to do a partial water change weekly.


Sam Reef
 

cris

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Jul 20, 2004
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#5
ok, tell me which kind of live rock I need b/c I can call the owner of the pet store and find out which I have--she said is was FIGI rock and it came from a tank that was established and had fish in it--what is the difference between the two?In the future, what kind of LR do I buy?
Can I go ahead and buy some more snails??? Do they serve as janitors for my tank?--what could I get that might clean up in order to lower my nitrites?
Should I put my air bar back in or some type of smaller one?
Is a powerhead the same as a protein skimmer or different?
I have a power filter and heater in there and that is all my equipp--other than the tank hood and lights.......
Thanks for all your help..
 

cris

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Jul 20, 2004
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#6
oh and my filter is a whisper and takes filter replacements that you make yourself (5 and 15 are the ones that I buy) and the only thing inside is carbon----so I am unsure about the phosphates---does that sound ok?
 

1979camaro

Ultimate Fish
Oct 22, 2002
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#7
lets see if i can answer some of these questions for you

fiji (not figi) is a location from which the LR comes...theoretically if it came from an established tank then it is cured (meaning die of has occured and there is a viable population of live critters), though you may have had some die off during transport and the addition of it to your tank which means it needs a short curing time. in short, the LR should be fine

I would, as sam suggested, wait to buy anything new for a couple weeks and continue to do some testing. the snails and crabs will serve as janitors for your tank eventually, but they won't do anything but mess up your water if they are dead. nothing you can get will "clean up in order to lower my nitrites" you just have to wait it out for the LR to finish curing. I find it odd that you say your nitrates test zero but your nitrites are high. first of all, the presence of nitrites makes a nitrate test innacurate, but nitrates will generaly read high when there is nitrite in the system

there is no reason to use your air bar...for some reason people seem to believe there is value in these things but they really do nothing for you

a powerhead is definitely not the same as a skimmer. a powerhead circulates water, a skimmer pulls nutrients out of the water...for your ten it is going to be hard to find a skimmer other than a HOB kind. if you decide you want one, the aquac remora is a good hob skimmer and i know that wayne is using the red sea prizm with success.

the power filter should be fine for creating some water circulation (essentially using it as a powerhead) and running some carbon on occasion, but generally speaking you aren't going to want to run it with the filter media in it.

i hope this helps some; what will really help, though, is getting a good book and reading some of the other posts here...there is a lot of information which it is impossible for us to cover without writing a small novel...which i reckon we could then sell, but somehow it seems the information is already out there

at this point, here is what i would do:

1)Let the LR sit in the tank with the filter running (no cartridge) and wait for your water parameters to stabilise

2)Meanwhile, read Palleta's New Marine Aquarium and read up on this website, especially the sticky at the top of this section about setting up a new tank

3)Wait some more...and get used to it; also realize that you will spend about as much on this 10 as you would likely spend on a 35 to 55 gallon tank and consider getting something bigger...

4)Wait some more and realize this is a slow process; decide whether you want to keep corals, and what kind (this may require a lighting upgrade)

5)while waiting some more, consider what fish you want to keep given that one is probably going to be the most you can keep in a tank of this size

6)Did I mention this is a slow process? Wait some more and do more research about fish, inverts, etc; at some point along the line here you should probably experience an algae bloom

7)Add a cleanup crew, and, you guessed it, wait some more

8)Add a fish and enjoy your weekly water changes
 

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wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
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#9
I wouldn't bother with a skimmer on this tank - it's so small it's easier to change a gallon once or twice a week. Lets get this straight
Right now you have a tank with saltwater in it and some fiji live rock. As this came from an established tank it is fair to assume this is cured.
You have a hood and lighting I assume. You are relying on your external filter for water movement.Pull out all the contents of your filter - you want the water to move around in your tank as fast as is possible. The live rock will be your filter medium.
What are your levels for salinity, pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Incidentally nitrite is NOT toxic in saltwater but is a guide to what's going on. What sort of hydrometer do you have? How warm is the tank?
When we know what's going on we can think about adding an easy animal. Is there anything growing on your live rock? Anything at all? What colour is it? Have you had any algae yet?
 

cris

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Jul 20, 2004
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#11
Wayne, thanks a bunch---I am with you and your reply-thanks for explaining the LR as it is my filter media :)

...I am not totally in the dark about this---I have read books and visited all the pet stores in my area--I get a different answers from every source. I just want to talk to someone who knows because they do it! The pet store people just sell fish and the books all say UGF and i have tried that before and it was a mess! I am just trying to make this work with what I have and not spend a fortune b/c we just had a baby and money is tight you know??? I just wanted to keep some part of my youth and keep up with a hobby of my own....and was a little bored with freshwater.....hehehehee

I do have a college degree--a master's degree in fact and I know i can do this---I just need a little help.........
I have a ten gal tank---I have a filter (whisper) that hangs on the tank--yesterday by advice from you guys, I took out the filter cartridge...so as you say it is my powerhead moving the water.....but, it doesn't circulate very much from what I can tell.......other than that all I have in the tank is a heater which hangs on the side (I am keeping my temps higher like the books said I need too). Inside the tank, I have about 8 lbs of live rock--2 that i bought a long time ago and 6 that i bought the other day---it is a beautiful--purple colors in spots some red....I noticed a worm like creature barely stick it's head out when i was staring at it yesterday........
by the way--the lady at the pet store didn't pack it in water to transport--should she have????
I bought some snails b/c someone told me they were janitors but they died.......and i left them in there.....maybe that is why my nitrites are high........so i got them out yesterday...........
i have those testing strips that you read to test my levels and I read on this sight that they are not the most reliable........so I will pick up a test tube kit today....so I don't have any real numbers for you....everything on the strip measures with the color on the chart---everything except the nitrites which the color isn't even on the chart I have------
I am measuring my salt with my hydrometer that you place in the water and it fills up and lets you know what the reading is as the needle moves up or down---I am sorry I dont know the specific brand.................
my hood came with the tank and it has flourescent lighting......
It has been set up for many months now--I have felt like i have been really patient.....just waiting for everything to measure correctly b/c I am not a fan of just getting to fish knowing my tank isn't a great place for them to live..........I want happy fish! For awhile I had brown algae..but I think it was growing b/c I was cutting my light on daily for about 8 hrs. Now, with the new baby, I forget to cut it on.................................so the algae has gone away and I have had no other kinds of algae to grow......................
I hope this helps you to help me!!!!!!
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
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#12
I agree with UGF's being a mess. I actually think you might be quite close to going in the right direction.
Shame the filter isn't pushing the water around more. We might want to fix that later. How warm is your water - I would try for 27, 28 C, or 78 - 80F. No warmer.
I'm glad to hear that you have some life on your rock. I had a notion last night the rock had been treated in a former life with copper which would have obliterated it for future invert use.
Get test kits for pH and nitrate right now, maybe kH. You can use your strip kit for ammonia because it's a simple yes/no good/bad answer i.m.o. What salinity are you at? Make sure you tap the sides of hydrometer when you use it - they're notorious for little bubbles and sticking giving 'unusual ' results.
Depending on the colour you might want to swap out one or the only fluorescent tube for one that's more blue. Again that can be done in the future.
What salt are you using. Most people seem happiest with Instant Ocean, but others are good two, and there are a couple that are utter rubbish.
Your brown algae was diatom growth, all typically normal.

Other than that give it a week. See if ammonia does anything, and see what nitrite does. It should go down. If you see more worms or whatever, anything alive, that's good, and maybe a sign you should try one or two more snails. Don't just push them in . I put mine in a litre pot, and drip water in or syphon in small amounts. After an hour the pot is near fll and I can lift the snail out and into the tank. Don't pour the shop water in!
Ask more questions as required! I know how it is with small babies - mine is 18 months
 

cris

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Jul 20, 2004
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#13
thanks a bunch! It really means a lot to get help and kindness all in one.....I have been reading many of the posts on this website and i understand that it gets frustrating when people ask for you to hold their hand b/c to do that it would be just like writing a book. I guess we just need a little help and a boost of confidence that we are doing the right thing-especially b/c we are new..............

I went yesterday to the pet store and bought the master saltwater testing kit...it has test tubes.....i came right home and did my testing.......................ammonia was 0, ph a perfect 8.2, suprisingly---nitrites 0, but, this kit is measuring nitrates 15.....salt is perfect and thanks for the info on the hydrometer............my temp is set on 78 so thatis great!!

I have noticed very very small white things floating around since I put my live rock in----I may just be seeing things!!!!!

Ok, i will pick up a blue light----any special kind??????
I am using instant ocean.....mixing it and then pouring the mixture in at water changes.....

Do the snails count towards the number of fish I can handle....I was thinking I would eventually(i know it will be awhile) put one in it--since it is a small tank----could i handle that you think to eventually have a few snails and a fish??? And are blennys a type of janitor fish as well?? I was told that the snails were.....

Well, I know that is far away so let me concentrate on the present......do you think I should wait a few days and then do another water change and check on my nitrates??? Or leave the water alone????


again, thanks for all your help!!!!!!!!

Boy or girl???? I have a 6week old girl-julia
the buzzword for us lately is colic--oh my!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
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#14
The blue light is up to you - it's almost purely aesthetic. All your levels seem ok though your nitrate is a bit high. Not a worry yet.
No fish yet. Inverts don't really count for much bioload.
What's your salinity. A lot of people will advise to keep it low, 1.018 to 1.020, but I am in the camp keep it as 1.025, seawater strengh. If you are up here already and you seem to be healthy try a small red or better blue leg hermit this weekend. Acclimate it in slow - these boys do not liek changes in salinity. If that is ok try a Lysmata sp. cleaner shrimp - these are showy enough to look at

18 month boy. Colic is not good
 

1979camaro

Ultimate Fish
Oct 22, 2002
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#16
lower nitrates are always good...that said, if you are going to do a water change before you add the inverts i would give the tank a few hours after the change to mix up good before i begin acclimating the new critters...that way you are sure you are acclimating them to the stabilized tank conditions and not a non-representative water sample that had not yet mixed...as far as salinity, i am from wayne's school and i keep it at 1.024 to 1.025...on that note, to help ensure consistancy it is handy to mark somewhere on the back of the tank a "fill line" that way you are sure that your topoffs do not under or over fill. in my sump i have marked a normal operating level for the system (to aide in topoffs), a "system off level" in case my pumps should go out or if i turn them off for a reason i can keep track of where the wter should be, and also a water change line...basically it allows me to easily take out about 10 gallons of water with the system off for water changes...my buckets are likewise marked so that i know how much SW to mix in advance in order to refill the system; then, when i turn it all back on i can verify that everything is still working properly because in a few minutes the water level return back to the fill line. this is something i did not do on my old nano-reef but i now wish i had, it wouldve saved me a lot of hastle...live and learn

just some things to consider while you ponder your first SW tank

i hope my previous post did not come out as too crotchety...it sounds like you are making great efforts to get this all done properly

btw, that cleaner shrimp is a great idea imo...they are tons of fun to watch...if you want something a little more showy (at least i think so) you might look at a blood shrimp (sometimes called "fire shrimp"): Lysmata debelius...may cost a couple bucks more, but i find them more aesthetically pleasing

i wish you lots of luck