something gone horribly wrong

[mcgoo32]

Hi

i've posted this on the fishtank crew board also because i need help fast, i've got nothing much left!

i've had my aquarium up and running for about a month now.

i had a few fish in it, neons, guppies and a silver shark. i went to another petshop and got more fish a week later - an angel, another guppie, and 2 plattys.

once the new fish were added all was well, until just the other night i noticed that i had some fry in the tank, i put the fry into a floating hatchery and never thought any more about it - it looks like guppies because one of them has lost weight

the next night i found the shark floating upside down on top, its fins were a bit funny, and its eyes were huge and seemed to have a sort of white skin over them.

after that white spots started appearing on all my other fish - not the fry though. i went to the petshop and explained what had happened and they said that i had a bad case of white spot, and sold me methylene blue for it. i put in the right amount of it and within seconds the water was completely royal blue. all the fish that were sluggish along the bottom of the tank started to come round, swimming about quite happy i thought. just this morning i've came home from uni to find all but 3 of my fish dead, i have a neon (which doesnt look good) and 2 plattys. they're all still covered in white spot- that stuff is supposed to work fast. i still have the 13 fry left too - seemingly unharmed.

the filters i see in the shops you can definetaly see the water being pumped out of them, but in mine you cant see it, but i know its working because you can feel the water pushing against your finger if you put it past it. its a fluval 1plus that came with the tank - a fully submersible one with a sponge inside it - please excuse this description as i dont know one from the other - do you think this filter is ok? should i get a more powerful one?

i have artificial plants in the tank, which i've taken out now because they were covered in white goo. a friend who works in a petshop told me that the neons had laid eggs and the goo was their way of fertilizing them. but now this goo is floating around my tank in clumps so i've removed all plants - but it must be thick in my gravel?

i tested all the levels last nite
nitrites - fine- 0.1mg/l
nitrates - fine - 0-10mg/l
ammonia - fine - less than 0.1mg/l
and the pH was between 7 and 8

i havent got a clue whats going on, i'm totally gutted at the amount of money i've spent on the petshops remedies for my problems, i dont know anyone else to ask about this so this is my last resort

can anyone tell me what to do with my tank - should i just completely empty it - chuck the gravel out, scrub the tank and start over again?

can i salvage my current set up?

thanks for any help

Daniel

 

[FroggyFox]

ok...wow. First of all what size tank is it? I'm having a hard time coming up with an explaination for the white goo...but as for the ich (white spot) I would follow the normal treatments, raise the temperature in the tank up to about 80 (not more than one or 2 degrees an hour...dont want to boil them) Did you take the carbon out of your filter (if you had any in there)?

I dont know much about canister filters (fluval is a canister right?) but I'm sure someone else will be able to give you some pointers on that. The filters that you can "see the water coming out" are most likely HOB filters that work completely differently than your filter, so don't worry about that.

Do you do regular gravel vaccuuming? I would do a large water change and clean the tank really well and see if you can save the remaining fish. Your nitrites aren't at 0...so I'm wondering if you overfeed at all? Or it might be that your tank was going through a mini cycle because of the increased bioload (fish you added)...which made your fish more suceptible to the ich.

They're probably feeling pretty poorly with the medication and all of their plants gone...I would leave the tank lights off (helps them feel more secure)

Hope this helps for now...I will keep thinking on the white goo.

 

[mcgoo32]

its a 20Gallon tank

i dont know what a cannister filter is either

inside the filter is a sponge - no carbon that i'm aware of - does it have a special compartment for it, or do i buy some and put it in it

the gravel vacuuming - is that a seperate tool that you can buy or do you just mean whilst using the siphoning thing rake through the gravel a bit?

i do rake through the gravel and the siphon does pull up quite a lot of crap - but i think there might be loads more in it and i cant get that out without taking more water out.

since this happened i've done a 75% water change - recommended by the petshop, and added some methylene blue to cure all the infections apparantly.

and since posting the last one - my neon only has a few white spots on it, and is doing a lot better than it was so i think the meythlene blue is working

Daniel

 

[FroggyFox]

Glad to hear the neon looks better...make sure to follow the directions on the medication to the letter, and if you do it twice as long as it reccomends, it would be even better. Ich's life cycle goes from free floating in the water and to being visible on your fish, but I think its only vunerable to the meds when its invisible to you and in the water...so you have to treat it for the full life cycle to get rid of it. This is another reason to raise the temp of the water, the life cycle of the nasties goes faster as the temperature goes up.

You should be doing water changes probably at least once a week and doing what you do with the siphon as much as possible to get that gunk out of the tank. I know sometimes I will empty a tank 50%, then fill it back up and decide theres still more yuck in there that I want out so I'll do it all over again right then.

For a 20G it sounds like the fish you had originally were doing fine, then you added some that over taxed the bioload that your filter could handle...and/or the new fish had some problems before you even added them to the tank. I'm having a hard time following...but when this is all over you might want to give us a list of the fish who are still in the tank and ask about suggestions for stocking it to make sure you dont overstock it with fish that will get too big for it...or at least make sure and do your research on your fish before you get them (like the angelfish and the shark).

Good luck!

 

[eykis9]

I don't have anything to add as for your problems but am wondering, is the type of filter you have? http://www.petsmart.com/products/product_35798.shtml

 

[TaffyFish]

The 1 plus is nowhere near enough to filter a 20 gallon tank. Personally, I would either ADD a 2 plus or replace the 1 plus with a 3 plus.

Once the meds have cleared the ich and you've improved the filtration and increased the efficiency and regularity of your gravel cleaning using the syphon your tank should be on the road to recovery.

Silver lining? Any fish that survive will be that bit stronger to resist any future ich outbreaks. Best wishes

 

[Purple]

A Fluval 1 (plus or not) is a submersible filter/pump that you stick to the inside of a tank - I have one on my 5, and the water flow is quite strong. The ammount of filtering it can do is limited though, and would not be enough for a 10 let alone a 20. It only has a small sponge insert - so carbon is not an issue here.

Check out your LFS and get a filter that is rated for at least a 30 gal tank, then an overload should not be a disaster like it is now.

Exactly what type of filter - cannister (external) - HOB (hang on back and pray) - or another stronger internal submersible is up to personal tastes and budgets - so look at everything first. Just so long as it's rated for a 30 you'll be fine.

 

[Purple]

OK - thinking about this - you’re going to need more info to make a wise choice. I tried finding links, but found they’re more confusing than helpful - so sod it - here we go...........

A filter works in two ways - firstly, it filters out the crap in the tank, secondly it houses the bacteria that change the nasty waste (Nitrite and Ammomia) into more manageable types, like Nitrate, which can be controlled by water changes.
The more crap you need to deal with (the larger the tank - and population size) - the more media you need in your filter. Using sponge media only in your 20, you’d need a bit of sponge the size of a house brick - now look at the size of the sponge in your Fuval 1 and you’ll start to see your problem.

First we’ll go into media types - then filter types.

Media can be reasonably (eg simply) divided into 4 types - sponge - floss - carbon - ceramic hoops. There are a lot of variations on these 4 out there - but lets keep this simple.
Sponge filters out particulate waste, and houses a lot of bacteria. When it starts to get clogged, wash it out in tank water - not tap water - that way you keep some bacteria alive in the sponge which tap water will kill.
Floss takes out a lot of particulate waste and houses bacteria, but can’t really be cleaned so should be treated as disposable. It does fine filter though, so it’s good if you can fit it in.
Carbon takes out almost everything - including medications - and houses even more bacteria than the others due to the surface area available. Remove carbon packs when medicating and pop them back in after. Carbon packs last a couple of months then should be replaced with new.
Ceramic hoops - mostly just surface area for bacteria - but they can last for a year or so without servicing/replacing.

Filter types - first up are the ones you have now - submersible in the main tank. The upside is they’re easy to get at and maintain - the downside is they often only have sponge inserts like yours, so you only get one “level” of filtration.

Next up are HOBs - they are “hang on the back” units, where the water is pumped out of your tank, through the unit, and back in again, going through whatever filter media they contain. They’re powerfull, can be packed with a lot of media, but not everyone likes the idea of having something “hanging” off the tank (me included).

Cannisters are just that - a self contained sealed cannister that sits on the floor with an inlet hose and an outlet hose - these are the big boys of filters. The water first goes through a foam screen, then is drawn through anything up to 8 trays full of whatever media you want to put in there. A typical set-up would be through the foam screen, then a tray of floss, them carbon, then hoops, then back into the tank.

Armed with this knowledge - your next step is your LFS (local fish store), to look at what they have. If you have a 20 gal, try and get a 30 gal filter. Bigger is better, and saves having to upgrade in the future - eg you only buy once.

Any other questions just ask - and welcome to the tank

 

[mcgoo32]

Hi

thanks for the advice purple

I was at my petshop a couple of nights ago, and I told them that i had been given advice that the filter they supplied me with wasnt up to the job.

I got to speak to the most senior person they had, and just happened to be the person with the most know how about fish.

I pointed out my tank to her, and straight away she said a 1plus was no where near enough for me, so she gave me a 2plus free of charge with some white fleesy wool (possible floss) and some carbon sheets to put in it to get rid of the methylene blue.

i handed in my old one last night, and she apologised once again for the mistake

i can see a difference right away in water clarity, and my surviving fish seem to be doing ok now. she also gave me a bottle of myxazin to treat them with, once a day for 5 days so i'm a couple of days into the course - hopefully everything will improve from now on.

my fry are doing fine also so i hope this is the start of something good!

thanks again

Daniel

 

[Purple]

No worries mate - we're all in the same tank here.

That wool stuff is floss - nice one.

Don't forget to remove the carbon while medicating