Spine loss - long spined urchin & green brittle star

RockingCricket

RockingCricket

Large Fish
#1
Jul 29, 2005
443
0
16
46
Sunny Cali & Rainy England
#1
I have 2 problems which may likely be related.
1. The large green brittle starfish has steadily dropped all of his long spines.
2. The large long spined urchin had also dropped all of his long spines. The guy at the (not so local) LFS did drop the urchin on the ground from about 4 feet when I purchased him a month or so ago so possibly shock? He remains quite active all the same.

I know that poor water conditions can be the cause of urchin spine loss (and therefor probably starfish spine loss also) but my water params are all good and have long remained static.

Anyone have any thoughts?
 

RockingCricket

RockingCricket

Large Fish
#6
Jul 29, 2005
443
0
16
46
Sunny Cali & Rainy England
#6
With the lack of live rock in my tank, starvaion could very possibly be th cause. I do make a point of always overfeeding so that the scavangers are fed too. I use flake, pellets and brine shrimp. I thought I had the balance quite even because my arrow crab has more than doubled in size (2 sheds) in the 6 weeks I've had him, and the hermits are all moving to bigger shells. I have very little algae growth.

Other than overfeeding, what more can I do? Target feed? Offer algae sheets?

Also regarding feeding, I have two angels. One is a Bi-Colour, the other is as yet unidentified (possibly Cortez). A LFS introduced me to Ocean Nutrition Formula Two Marine Pellets and said they are great for supplementing grazers diets when you have little or no live rock. Is my feeding program enough or would it be an idea to offer algae sheets as well?
 

CAPSLOCK

CAPSLOCK

Elite Fish
#7
Jul 19, 2004
3,682
33
48
39
Cape Cod
#7
A lot angels (esp. dwarfs) are supposed to have at least 50% of their diet as algae. There is some algae in the ocean nutrition cubes, but you ought to try the aglae sheets too to see if your angels will eat them... it can't hurt to try. They also let the angels graze at their leisure, which is another good thing if you don't have enough LR for them to graze.
 

W

wayne

Elite Fish
#9
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#9
I hope you got it cheap. Why do you think a cortez - it's not what I would call likely, but post a picture and I'll tell you what I think, or at least a description.

Re: the bicolor - these have a very bad rep for survival, but I didn't find mine difficult. The majority starve to death without ever getting going on prepared foods - mine did not touch prepared foods for the first full month (no joke), and just picked on the live rock, so no live rock and I'd say you have a pretty poor chance of ever getting it to eat anything, and long term no hope of good health unless you have a tank full of hair algae for it to pick at. Small ones (< 1 1/2 inches) are much easier to get going than larger i.m.o. - I always buy centropyge small. As a comparism I have qt'ed Kole tangs and small butterflies, and found them much easier to get feeding than the bicolor.
This is the sort of fish that without live rock you are simply not going to succeed with, yo cannot provide enough varied food manually. Also small ones are solitary crevice hiders, so I hope you have a good lot of rock in there. A shame as I think they're my fave centropyge. As a note the only reason I gave mine away is that I needed the space for my pair of yellowfin centropyge, and I am distinctly interested in trying to get a pair of these to spawn. So next year back to bicolours.

Also looking at the diet I'd aimagine the urchins are shedding spines as they're starving to death. Both of them, especially the long spines are dominantly herbivores, and my urchin eats a lot of stuff everyday.
 

W

wayne

Elite Fish
#11
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#11
Agree, get that right, and it's not a hard fish. But for fish-only it's near impossible. Check out the other forums,and see what they have to say.

It's also a shame that the american market has a preference for bigger fish, which doesn't make life easier. If you bought a centropyge would you rather buy that was 1, 2 or 3 inches long. Size makes a difference.
 

RockingCricket

RockingCricket

Large Fish
#12
Jul 29, 2005
443
0
16
46
Sunny Cali & Rainy England
#12
I think I have struck lucky with the Bi-Colour as it is feeding well - accepting both flake and pellets. He is medium in size (2 1/2inch). I will try some algae sheets also. Which is better, the red or the green algae? I don't want to get bogged down the 'get some live rock' agruement, instead I want to do all ese possible to promote their success.

Regarding the shyness of the bi-colour - again I think I have struck lucky. Mine is bold. Probably the most brazen fish in the tank. He did have a little to say about the unidentified angel coming into his home, but he soon settled down. The bi-colour had only been in for 3 or 4 weeks, and so I thought it safe to take the risk on a cheaply priced second angel.
 

RockingCricket

RockingCricket

Large Fish
#13
Jul 29, 2005
443
0
16
46
Sunny Cali & Rainy England
#13
The un-identified angel came frm a LFS who have 'buy a fish out a bag' days every once in a while. This is basically where they order a large shipment, and sell each fish from the bag it arrives in for a 25% discount.

The angel I found was labelled as a cortez (juv) $21.99USD. A lack of bold yellow stripes alerted me that it isn't a cortez. Noone in the store could ID it and I was told to call back today, where they will have found out where the shipment came from, and can therefor ID it. I called and they said it is an Atlantic Blue. This doesn't appear correct either, although that would be quite nice.

My digitalcam is unavailable right now so I can't show a picture. As for a description. It looks like a juvenile Pomacanthus chrysurus, the Ear-Spot Angelfish. It is changing to adult and is showing a flash of yellow running along the length of the dorsal fin. The tail looks like it will change to yellow and there is a hint of yellow between the eyes. The yellow doesn't fit with the appearance of the Adult Ear-Spot.

Possibly a Blue Face??
 

RockingCricket

RockingCricket

Large Fish
#16
Jul 29, 2005
443
0
16
46
Sunny Cali & Rainy England
#16
I just now spoke with the LFS again about the unidentified angel and they have confirmed my suspicions. My angel IS a Blue Faced Angel!! Unbelievable! They let me have a $150+ fish for $17, and they also let me leave with a small BTA for my Maroon clown for $11!! It must be my english charm heh heh.

Saltwaterfish.com says that the blueface eats pellets. Can anyone elaborate on this? I'm currently using flake, formula 2 pellets, frozen brine and green algae sheets.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.