Start-up cost questions for planning ahead wisely

[Zfisher]

I apologize if this has been covered ad nauseum, but I read through the beginner stickies and didn't see this info there or any of the other beginner threads. After having a really unpleasant experience with LFS, I'm hoping you guys can help me.

I have absolutely no experience with fish, and my young daughter desperately wants a gold fish. After researching, I told her no on the goldfish, but we are considering a betta for her. I will be the one caring for it, and I want it to be healthy, happy, and stress-free. So I have read up on beta care so much that now I feel like I've fallen down the rabbit hole and keep feeling like I need to consider larger, more complicated and expensive set-ups. Also I don't have a good local resource on good brands of filters/lights/heaters specifically for bettas.

Here are my questions:
What is the best (healthiest) set-up for a beginning betta keeper including brand names I can buy online? For example, in wanting it to be simple and healthy, is there a filter that I wouldn't need to baffle in order to make it betta friendly?
I originally wanted to do a 5 gallon tank, but now am worried that's really too small. Is it?
What's a general ball park figure for start up costs for a 5 or 10 gallon betta tank? Ballpark figure for yearly maintenance? I know there are a lot of variables, but I really just want safe and healthy, not fancy.
Thanks for any help. I do not want to bite me from more than I can chew when it comes to a living creature. I've studied the nitrogen cycle and appropriate husbandry for the little guys, I'm just having trouble finding good info on brands and costs.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

Sometimes, just a walk through the store (even a Petsmart / Petco) will give you an idea on prices and setups / tank styles that you find attractive. A bare, traditional 10g tank will cost about $15. A 5g about the same. But the equipment you get will depend on your taste and budget. I find Amazon to be a wonderful resource for spying on reviews...

The healthiest setup is the one that you're going to keep up maintenance with. Though with a light on it (even a crappy light), adding plants will be beneficial - provides natural scenery and aids in water management. For a low-light setup, just look at lower light plants (pretty much all light setups are going to be low light unless they are specifically sold as otherwise). Java fern, for example, will grow (slowly) in most any lighting.

5g makes a nice size for a betta. Of course, in reality the startup and ongoing costs for a 5g versus a 10g are pretty much dead even, so if you want a bit more room and maybe to add tankmates the 10g gives you more options.

I will make one specific recommendation - I've had great luck with the aqueon pro heaters (they are all black, with a little light to let you know when they are heating and when the water is at temp).

For a filter, try to aim for something that has adjustable flow. I've got an aquaclear HOB filter sized appropriately for my tank, but turned down to a slower flow as the fish I have appreciate the slower flow.

 

[FreshyFresh]

Totally agree with Caps, but I wouldn't necessarily rule-out goldfish. 2 fancy goldfish in a 29g is a long-term doable setup IMO. 29's are nice, because of their 30"x12" footprint that's shared by 20 longs, 29 and 37s. Goldies have tons of personality and are kind of underrated IMO. No heater required for them either, just good filtration. Tanks themselves often go on sale at Petco or PetSuppliesPlus for $1/gal (up to 55g). An aquaclear hang-on-back filter is $30-80. Tops and lighting choices vary widely.

In regards to bettas, I've kept single male bettas in planted 10g. I've kept them with other small tank mates like zebra danios and celestial pearl danios with great success.

I also keep groups of female bettas in my community 55g. They are an absolute joy to keep with their personality.

More so than deciding on fish, decide on how large a tank you want and where you want to put it. Keeping your tank in a location that makes water changes easy is an important thing. Keep in mind your average tank requires a 50% weekly water change. I don't do less than 50% weekly regardless.

 

[Zfisher]

But the equipment you get will depend on your taste and budget. I find Amazon to be a wonderful resource for spying on reviews....

Thank you so much for your input and recommendations, I will definitely look up those brands. And I too love stalking Amazon reviews, and am hoping that my Prime membership will help me in this endeavor! I was just concerned that I'm so totally clueless I will have a hard time separating the more and less knowledgeable reviews on a general site.

So with the Aquaclear filter, if I get the appropriate size for my tank and turn it all the way down, I won't have to baffle it for a betta? And I was hoping to add some live plants to help maintain the environment (I know I will still need to be rigorous about water changes), but then I started second guessing that the live plants might just add more maintenance. Are they pretty easy? I Know I sound ridiculous, I just have a Type A personality and I'm a vet so I will really be unhappy with myself if I don't take optimal care of the fish, but I'm also working full time and have a 4 year old and an infant, so I need to keep it reasonable to maintain.

 

[Zfisher]

Totally agree with Caps, but I wouldn't necessarily rule-out goldfish. 2 fancy goldfish in a 29g is a long-term doable setup IMO. 29's are nice, because of their 30"x12" footprint that's shared by 20 longs, 29 and 37s. Goldies have tons of personality and are kind of underrated IMO.

More so than deciding on fish, decide on how large a tank you want and where you want to put it. Keeping your tank in a location that makes water changes easy is an important thing. Keep in mind your average tank requires a 50% weekly water change. I don't do less than 50% weekly regardless.

Thanks so much for the info on goldfish, I was scared off by the info on their bio load. I will definitely keep that in mind because I won't be surprised if we wind up adding a second larger tank later when we move. My daughter is really young, but has been absolutely fascinated by sea life and aquariums her whole life, and can already tell you reams of facts about lots of species.

For now, I've chosen a betta because they sound like they are a good choice for a kid who wants a fish with a cool personality but only room for a small tank. At our current house I think I would need to place a 10 gallon on her dresser (it's solid wood, and sturdy, so I think this should be safe and still allow me to reach it easily for water changes). But maybe a 5 gallon is better since I don't have room for an aquarium stand. I know they get heavy.

 

[FreshyFresh]

Keep in mind that stands are not all that expensive for tanks 55g and under (search Titan-EZE metal stands or Brooklyn metal stands from Petco). I'm not trying to push you away from a 10g tank, but smaller does not mean it's easier to keep and maintain. It's quite the opposite IMO. When things go south in a 10g, they go south REALLY quickly due to the small water volume. Maintenance isn't necessarily easier either given the tiny foot-print.

This is why you typically see recommended, a 20 long or 29 as a starter tank. More water is more forgiving and the larger footprint gives you more options on the setup and the fish you can keep.

You'll have to decide if you want to cycle the tank with the "fish-less" method by adding ammonia, if you want to do a fish-in, or if you want to set it up with seeded filtration media (the best method). Any of these will require an API Master Test Kit, which you'll need anyway.

Single male bettas are cool, but another opinion of mine is a group of female bettas is WAAAY cooler and will satisfy a child more. If you are hell bent on a 10g, you could easily do 3-4 female bettas in a 10g, with some plants and decor in it. In a 20L or 29, you could do a male betta and community fish, or a group of female bettas and community fish.

 

[Zfisher]

Keep in mind that stands are not all that expensive for tanks 55g and under (search Titan-EZE metal stands or Brooklyn metal stands from Petco). I'm not trying to push you away from a 10g tank, but smaller does not mean it's easier to keep and maintain. It's quite the opposite IMO. When things go south in a 10g, they go south REALLY quickly due to the small water volume. Maintenance isn't necessarily easier either given the tiny foot-print.

Hence my descent down the rabbit hole, lol. I need to stick to a 5 or 10 gallon because of space limitations right now, we won't have room for a separate aquarium stand until later when we move. But my hope is that by keeping the bio load low with a single betta, it will be relatively simple to maintain the tank with regular water changes. I am planning to do a fish less cycle with ammonia before adding the fish.
That's cool info about the multiple betta females. Do females pretty reliably get along or are some aggressive?

 

[CAPSLOCK]

Some female bettas are aggressive. I have had poor luck trying to integrate a few bettas in a smaller aquarium. They really need space to set up territories, or to have more in a smaller space so no one has territories. In a 10g, I think having 3-4 female bettas would be hit or miss (I've only experienced miss, but I've heard success stories as well).

Live low light plants don't add much maintenance. Most of the low light plants are slow growing and don't need to be pruned very often. You don't need to have any special equipment for them. They'll tend to use up some of the nutrients in the water (which will reduce algae) as well as improving water quality between water changes. You'd probably be looking at about once every other month pruning a bit. If you're going with any plants that root, avoid sand as a substrate (at least in the area where the plants are). Medium or higher light plants do require a lot of tidying or trimming or pruning, and there is a lot of specialized equipment you can get into (ie, CO2).

A timer on the lights is a good investment (about $6), otherwise it's hard to keep a consistent lighting schedule.

 

[FreshyFresh]

That's cool info about the multiple betta females. Do females pretty reliably get along or are some aggressive?

They do shove each other around on a regular basis, but I've never had them damage each other. I've had groups of 4 at two different times, but this is in my community 55g. When you approach the tank, they'll all fly right up to you and they'll all eat together, etc.. Like Caps said though, all bettas, male or female seem to have different personalites/manners.. I've had nothing but good luck aside that I've never gotten more than a 2-2.5yr lifespan out of any betta and with my water change schedule, my tanks never see 20ppm nitrates.

Sounds like you're going to do a 5-10. I've not seen many glass 5's in stores. 10g's are easier to fit with filtration, heaters and hoods/lights. If it's got to be single male betta and you have the space issues you describe, you may as well look at those plastic tank setups at Petsmart, Petco or the likes, where the filtration, lighting, etc comes with it.

Or check CraigsList for a 10g setup. Deals can be had on CL. An idea on price, here's my planted 10g

Tank: $10
AquaClear30 filter: $25
VersaTop glass top: $15-18
Aqueon strip light: $15
Two ~6500K 10w CFLs for strip light: $15-20
Heater: $15

Just over $100 for the hardware.

Prime and an API Master Test Kit would be another $35 or so, then your decor, etc..

 

[Zfisher]

Thank you both so much for your input, I really appreciate the time you've taken, and this is all extremely helpful to me. I feel less intimidated now.