I recently went on vacation leaving my mom to take care of my fish tank (10 gallon) while I was away... sadly I have to report that, they all died. They died of ick, my mom did'nt know what was wrong with them, and she did'nt want to tell me about the fish deaths while I was away because she thought it would upset me because I take my fish so seriously... soo basically my question is, does ICK travel and stay in the water or does it die when there are no fish in the tank? ... my lfs (big Al's - a totally awesome place!) the people there said that ICK goes away, after 7 days if there are no 'hosts' in the tank... just seeing if what they are saying is true... They hav'nt lied to me be4, but I am just wanting to be safe!
starting a tank again...
- Thread starter aidanchick
- Start date
As far as I'm aware, ich stays in water. Big Al's was probably not lying (great place btw!). Their life cycle depends upon a host, and without host they die, well, sort of. How long it would take them to die is another story. While in their cysts (called "tomonts"
, they lay dormant. I've heard they could possibly stay dormant in this stage for an indefinite period of time. The obvious question would be "well how do I get rid of them for good?" Unfortunately, it really won't matter wether you get rid of them or not, because when you introduce your new fish, there is a 99.9% chance that they will have ich as well. It is nearly impossible to get rid of ich without using chemicals that would kill your fish (like bleach).
First I should tell you that fish having ich is totally different from fish that have diseased conditions. So, basically what we should concentrate on is prevention, and what to do about it if your fish become diseased. There is a lot of misinformation out there, so I'll let you in on a few of my "secrets of success."
Prevention:
1. Choosing your fish at your dealer is important. Specialty shops are generally better than chain stores such as Petco and Petsmart. They readily treat their fish, because their losses aren't backed by corporate cash flows. Look for healthy tanks, i.e., no abnormal signs of breathing and definitely no infestations. Remember, the first place ich infects on a fish are their gills, the one place you cannot see!
2. So you got the healthy fish home. All that stuff about "floating the bag" is complete bs. Get the fish out of that bag immediately and put it in the tank (wether it's community or quaratine)! Do NOT dump in the dealers water! What we are trying to do is reduce fish stress. Stress leads to reduced immune system functioning in the fish and increased chances for ich to multiply on weak hosts. Last time I checked, dealer bags didn't have filters. Your tank should have "ideal" parameters to begin with, so don't worry about their survival rate. That's why any reputable dealer will have at least a 24 hour warranty. Not all fish will live...
3. It is crucial that your tank maintains a stable temperature. Normal fluctuations of 2 degrees is ok (this occurs in smaller tanks for the most part, like your 10 gallon). Much more than 2 degrees change per day will lead to stressed fish and guess what? Yep, ich infestations.
Next reply...what is up with this "your message is too long" stuff?
, they lay dormant. I've heard they could possibly stay dormant in this stage for an indefinite period of time. The obvious question would be "well how do I get rid of them for good?" Unfortunately, it really won't matter wether you get rid of them or not, because when you introduce your new fish, there is a 99.9% chance that they will have ich as well. It is nearly impossible to get rid of ich without using chemicals that would kill your fish (like bleach). First I should tell you that fish having ich is totally different from fish that have diseased conditions. So, basically what we should concentrate on is prevention, and what to do about it if your fish become diseased. There is a lot of misinformation out there, so I'll let you in on a few of my "secrets of success."
Prevention:
1. Choosing your fish at your dealer is important. Specialty shops are generally better than chain stores such as Petco and Petsmart. They readily treat their fish, because their losses aren't backed by corporate cash flows. Look for healthy tanks, i.e., no abnormal signs of breathing and definitely no infestations. Remember, the first place ich infects on a fish are their gills, the one place you cannot see!
2. So you got the healthy fish home. All that stuff about "floating the bag" is complete bs. Get the fish out of that bag immediately and put it in the tank (wether it's community or quaratine)! Do NOT dump in the dealers water! What we are trying to do is reduce fish stress. Stress leads to reduced immune system functioning in the fish and increased chances for ich to multiply on weak hosts. Last time I checked, dealer bags didn't have filters. Your tank should have "ideal" parameters to begin with, so don't worry about their survival rate. That's why any reputable dealer will have at least a 24 hour warranty. Not all fish will live...
3. It is crucial that your tank maintains a stable temperature. Normal fluctuations of 2 degrees is ok (this occurs in smaller tanks for the most part, like your 10 gallon). Much more than 2 degrees change per day will lead to stressed fish and guess what? Yep, ich infestations.
Next reply...what is up with this "your message is too long" stuff?
Elimination: Very important!!!
4. Well you did your best, but those little buggers got ich anyway (darn them!). Mistake numer one: raise the temperature. What if your fish are temperature stressed to begin with (no, they won't tell you...)? Ok, stay with me here, the end will justify the means. When you raise the temperature in your tank, two things happen. The most well known is that the life cycle of ich increases! Yay! Well, to kill ich, you have to catch it in its free swimming form (called "theronts". That's great. The more theronts exposed to medication, the better. Or is it? At this stage, we are only thinking about killing the ich, and we are blinded to how our prized fish are really doing. This leads us to the second thing that happens: the dissolved oxygen content is reduced! Additionally, the metabolic rate of our fish increases! A higher metabolic rate causes our fish to consume more of the oxygen in the wat...wait a minute...didn't we just reduce the oxygen content in the water? Remember from earlier I told you that the first place ich infests is the gills? Not only have we decreased the amount of oxygen in the water, we've increased our fishs' consumption of oxygen, and our fish definitely have ich infestations on their gills! This is why we should not increase the water temperature. There is no reason why medication cannot take care of this problem with a stable water temperature (provided you use the correct medication, see #6).
5. Mistake number 2 is to add salt. What excactly is salt doing FOR your fish? It doesn't kill ich. Nor is it a disinfectant. Salt is a very poor excuse for proper prevention or medication. When you go to the doctor, he doesn't prescribe you salt for infections does he? It is in fact possible that the reliance upon salt has resulted in more fish losses than the disease itself. Salt can be useful in about two certain circumstances (treatment of nitrite poisoning and osmoregulatory stress), but not for the treatment of ich. I can go on and on about why salt is bad, but I will just mention one more thing: salt is an irritant to tetras, catfish, goldfish, and koi.
6. What is a proper medication for ich? Very simple: malachite green, formalin, or a mixture of the two. Copper is another, but it is lethal to freshwater fish. So, when treating, remember that scaless fish (tetras, catfish, loaches, etc.) are very sensitive to medications, and the amount should be reduced to half the recommended dose. I have treated loaches many times, and they are free of ich (obvious infestations) in 3-4 days using the formalin/malachite green mix. Most other fish are "cured" in less that time. Treating longer is better, but this mix is a bit rough on live plants. Half dose twice daily (with activated carbon filtration, once daily without) works really well.
Good luck on your next tank, and school your mom on your fishes! Who knows, she may actually get interested!
4. Well you did your best, but those little buggers got ich anyway (darn them!). Mistake numer one: raise the temperature. What if your fish are temperature stressed to begin with (no, they won't tell you...)? Ok, stay with me here, the end will justify the means. When you raise the temperature in your tank, two things happen. The most well known is that the life cycle of ich increases! Yay! Well, to kill ich, you have to catch it in its free swimming form (called "theronts"
. That's great. The more theronts exposed to medication, the better. Or is it? At this stage, we are only thinking about killing the ich, and we are blinded to how our prized fish are really doing. This leads us to the second thing that happens: the dissolved oxygen content is reduced! Additionally, the metabolic rate of our fish increases! A higher metabolic rate causes our fish to consume more of the oxygen in the wat...wait a minute...didn't we just reduce the oxygen content in the water? Remember from earlier I told you that the first place ich infests is the gills? Not only have we decreased the amount of oxygen in the water, we've increased our fishs' consumption of oxygen, and our fish definitely have ich infestations on their gills! This is why we should not increase the water temperature. There is no reason why medication cannot take care of this problem with a stable water temperature (provided you use the correct medication, see #6).5. Mistake number 2 is to add salt. What excactly is salt doing FOR your fish? It doesn't kill ich. Nor is it a disinfectant. Salt is a very poor excuse for proper prevention or medication. When you go to the doctor, he doesn't prescribe you salt for infections does he? It is in fact possible that the reliance upon salt has resulted in more fish losses than the disease itself. Salt can be useful in about two certain circumstances (treatment of nitrite poisoning and osmoregulatory stress), but not for the treatment of ich. I can go on and on about why salt is bad, but I will just mention one more thing: salt is an irritant to tetras, catfish, goldfish, and koi.
6. What is a proper medication for ich? Very simple: malachite green, formalin, or a mixture of the two. Copper is another, but it is lethal to freshwater fish. So, when treating, remember that scaless fish (tetras, catfish, loaches, etc.) are very sensitive to medications, and the amount should be reduced to half the recommended dose. I have treated loaches many times, and they are free of ich (obvious infestations) in 3-4 days using the formalin/malachite green mix. Most other fish are "cured" in less that time. Treating longer is better, but this mix is a bit rough on live plants. Half dose twice daily (with activated carbon filtration, once daily without) works really well.
Good luck on your next tank, and school your mom on your fishes! Who knows, she may actually get interested!
Thanks so much for the info..
should I just do a water change, and basically "start my tank again?" .. *well duh that is what I am doing but, like let it cycle again and stuff?*
My mom is werid, when I first got my fish she was upset because they were in a tank and not in the wild (she wanted them to be free!) : ... she also got upset that I was'nt feeding them enough, so I just gave her some BS simple rules to follow... you can turn on the light when you get up in the morning, and you can turn it off when ever you want at night.. (my tank is a a dark corner of my family's living room, no natural light and like not that much like light buld light - besides the tank light itself) .. ahh well, I can teach her correctly.. or just move the tank to my bedroom .. so she wont worry about the fish being sad or depressed because they are kept in a tank... (shesh, I told you she was werid)
should I just do a water change, and basically "start my tank again?" .. *well duh that is what I am doing but, like let it cycle again and stuff?*
My mom is werid, when I first got my fish she was upset because they were in a tank and not in the wild (she wanted them to be free!) :
... she also got upset that I was'nt feeding them enough, so I just gave her some BS simple rules to follow... you can turn on the light when you get up in the morning, and you can turn it off when ever you want at night.. (my tank is a a dark corner of my family's living room, no natural light and like not that much like light buld light - besides the tank light itself) .. ahh well, I can teach her correctly.. or just move the tank to my bedroom .. so she wont worry about the fish being sad or depressed because they are kept in a tank... (shesh, I told you she was werid)
Hehe, that's pretty funny. I would just give the tank a few days, do a nice water change or two, and get on with it. It should be cycled already, unless there were some drastic modifications. Just make sure all your water parameters are in check, and you should be good to go.
Fortunately, fish really don't realize that they are not in the wild. They more or less operate on instinct. They are adapted to particular envionments, and that's what they expect. If they realized they weren't in their natural envionment, they would probably stress and die. If we are in jail, we stress, but unfortunately, we have the cognitive capability to know why we're there, and we deal with it Sometimes ignorance is bliss (in the case of the fish that is) ;D
Fortunately, fish really don't realize that they are not in the wild. They more or less operate on instinct. They are adapted to particular envionments, and that's what they expect. If they realized they weren't in their natural envionment, they would probably stress and die. If we are in jail, we stress, but unfortunately, we have the cognitive capability to know why we're there, and we deal with it
Sometimes ignorance is bliss (in the case of the fish that is) ;D