Still trying to avoid Live Rock

RockingCricket

RockingCricket

Large Fish
#1
Jul 29, 2005
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#1
The guy at one of my LFS who was supposed to hook me up with some free/cheap LR rubble today went back on his word. No real worries. Although beggars can't be choosers, his rock was terrible. It look like concrete (base rock I guess). I drove a few miles down the road to PetExtreme and found they had some excellent Figi Branch. Wifey was with me so I wasn't able to buy much, just 3 lbs. :rolleyes: They did however only charge me for 1 lb, which was nice of them *thumbsups

Anyway, my question - I have a lot of filtation (Fluval 404, Emporer 400, Bak-Pak Skimmer) and so I believe I am less dependant on LR for it's filtration properties. Does this mean I can afford to use considerable less LR than the recommended 1lb per gallon. I am hoping that with my filtration, the only reason I need it is for seeding my tank and providing grazing areas. If this is the case can I get away with just 10lbs or so in a 90G?

Also, is 3lbs enough to begin the seeding, or is such a small amount a joke in a 90?

I understand that most people in the know at the tank are live rock pushers, and I understand that LR is the best way to go, but please, I'm asking if my theories are do-able, I'm not asking what is the BEST option.
 

1979camaro

1979camaro

Ultimate Fish
#2
Oct 22, 2002
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yes its doable to create a fish only system without live rock but your life will be a major pain. It is infinitely more easy and more reliable to do a LR based system. Your emperor and fluval aren't nearly as good for biological filtration as LR (not to mention all the other beneficial life it contains) and are, more than anything else, likely to generate a bunch of nitrates. That is, of course, less of a problem in a FO system when compared to a reef and so its not as deadly. I guess the moral of this story is that it can be done with your setup but its not the best way to go for a lot of reasons. Yes, it is expensive, but it is very worthwhile.

10 pounds is not going to provide enough grazing area for a 90g system and as far as seeding your system there is nothing to seed...you don't have any base rock or anything. your filter media should already have bacteria on it from the fish being in there

yes, you can use less than 90 pounds, the key is just to find what looks good to you and is a fairly large volume. my recomendation is to order a 50# box online somewhere...should cost you less than $150 for fiji (including shipping)
 

RockingCricket

RockingCricket

Large Fish
#3
Jul 29, 2005
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1979camaro said:
as far as seeding your system there is nothing to seed...you don't have any base rock or anything.
Click to expand...
I do have base rock. I have well over 50lbs of bleached dead coral in there.

10 pounds is not going to provide enough grazing area for a 90g system
Click to expand...
Would it be possible to grow a few kinds of seaweed in my system for grazing as a substitute?
 

A

aresgod

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#4
Jan 14, 2004
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I would agree with camaro, setting up a tank that size with no LR would be a major pain unless you kept like 2 or 3 small fish, and it wouldnt be very attractive, you would have to do all sorts of water changes and would generally not be enjoyable, which we forget that the main thing with this hobby is that it should be enjoyable.150$ is not alot of money, if your trying to do this cheaply then its doable but there are certain things you can't "do your self" LR is one of them. Spend the 150$ and get some LR, you will be much happier.

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_1...category=0&category_search=7&root_parent_id=7
there is 50 lbs of Fiji for roughly 4.00$ a pound, including shipping.
if you look around I am sure you could find a better deal, but I just googled it and that was the first hit.
 

RockingCricket

RockingCricket

Large Fish
#6
Jul 29, 2005
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#6
Thankyou guys. I will save my pennies and get my grubby mits on some rock then (and ask about it nolonger). The liveaquaria deal on LR seems fantastic value. I hope they continue it for a while.

Incidentally, will I need to beef up my lighting for any LR to prosper? Currently I have 4 48" flourescent tubes. (1 blue Actinic, 1 10000K, 1 unknown & 1 which is the same as the striplights in my kitchen).
 

W

wayne

Elite Fish
#8
Oct 22, 2002
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Without rubbing it in, it is perfectly possible to keep a tank w/o live rock, but as stated it is a p.i.t.a. As I recall, tanks pre LR in the 70's and 80's I remember people doing what you're trying to do , and basically treat them as an extension of frshwater, and it was not very easy/successful. You can get, by cycling as per fresh, a set of filter bacteria, but the setups always end up a bit dodgy.
So you can do it, but you'll largely be aiming for a semi sterile tank enviroment where the range of fish you can keep is far limited. Certainly a Ctenochaetus tang will starve to death in such a setup. Dwarf angels were considered hard then , now they're mostly easy because we can ensure they get so much more varied a diet through browsing
As a point I would say that with a fluval 404 and a HOB, that you are actually distinctly underfilterd for saltwater. That kind of rig would be ok for freshwater, though I would actually use more than that for some fish, but in salt where the sensitivites are higher, and ammonia so more toxic, that is not going to cut it.
 

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RockingCricket

RockingCricket

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#9
Jul 29, 2005
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#9
Thanks Wayne for going into more detail for me. I know I have asked these questions before, and I know it is tedious to keep explaining. I appreciate your patience and am now convinced that LR is definitely the way to go. I understand that my proposals are do-able, but I'll enjoy much better success if I shell out the $150. I may add some Chromis to to my solitary soldier, and expand the clean up crew, but will hold off on adding anything else (well maybe a little scooter blenny for the wife (she loves 'em)) untill I have at least 50lbs of LR in the system and everything is balanced.
Thanks again Sir for your sage advice.
 

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aresgod

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#10
Jan 14, 2004
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remember your going to have to cure this LR, if your planning on doing it in your tank I wouldn't add anything because it will most likely die. you could always get some rubber containers and cycle it in your garage.
 

RockingCricket

RockingCricket

Large Fish
#12
Jul 29, 2005
443
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#12
Yep. Seem's we're all in agreement - LR must go in before anything else is done. I'll investigate how Caribbean my current tank mates are (see other thread) and depending on that either cure the rock in the tank (if they are non-carib and won't fit in the scheme) or in large rubbermaid storage bins (if they will fit into the caribbean theme).
 

RockingCricket

RockingCricket

Large Fish
#16
Jul 29, 2005
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#16
Thanks Camaro. I doubted that the clown was, but everything except the gobies are listed on eTropicals as being from that region. My Chromis is certainly more blue than green so perhaps I have one of these:
http://www.etropicals.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=41&pCatId=1241
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=113
and not one of these:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=115

The Atlantic and the Caribbean are two waters that touch (with Barbados slap bang in the middle as it happens), so perhaps that widens my choices a bit.

My Emerald crab certainly from the correct biotope :mad:
 

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