Sugar???

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#1
Okay I have been doing some reading.......(perchance in another forum) on adding sugar to your tank to feed your bacteria. An interesting concept and from what I can tell can increase the output of your skimmer......has anyone had any experience with this? tried it and have first hand OBJECTIVE experience and/or researched this topic in depth?
 

OCCFan023

Superstar Fish
Jul 29, 2004
1,817
5
0
35
New Jersey
#2
I have only done light reading on the subject and have never tried it (or had the means or need to try to add sugar in an effort to reduce nitrates by feeding the bacteria that takes care of it)

I will be doing no sand bed (as of right now~could change) so if nitrates ever were to become a problem I may look into trying it for a hsort term fix but would never want to rely on sugar to deal with my nitrate problems.

There really hasnt been too much research/conclusive evidence to proove or deny either side of the argument so its touch and go in the home aquarium so I guess if you were even in the need of such a decrease in nitrates and would want to avoid a larger w/c (would be less stressful on the inhabitants) then it could be a feasbile idea to try.

I have seen people saying that there skimmers started producing dirtier skimmate after dosing sugar but that could be a long line of things before the sugar or sugar acting in different ways (like I said before no proven things on the matter)
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#3
I had read also that it improves water clarity and that corals actually colour up more (I wonder if that could be due to increased light due to more clarity in the water?) I think I may just try it and document my findings........I am currently battling a small outbreak of cyano (due to degraded pc lights and increase in nitrate?) so I am willing to give it a try and document it.
 

OCCFan023

Superstar Fish
Jul 29, 2004
1,817
5
0
35
New Jersey
#4
that would be a excellent thing to document and I would love to see the results of it.

IDK about the cyano thriving off the degraded lights but the higher nitrates deifintly.

Would be worth the effort. What are your nitrates at currently?
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#5
Okay this is going to sound dumb but I haven't measured them lately.......I measured my phosphates and they were at about .1 so I added some rowaphos.....I blame the cyano on nitrates and am not sure it was the culprit or the lights.

I know that when the pcs start to go the spectrum degrades to a range that is beneficial to cyano......and they thrive at this spectrum. Since changing out one bulb they have receeded and I have the second bulb on order.....darn things should last longer than 6 months....grrr....
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#8
Cyano can fix dissolved atmospheric dissolved nitrogen so doesn't need any nitrates. Most algaes prefer to absorb organics or derived compounds BEFORE they reach the nitrate stage, rising nitrate is just a sign of a reater problem.

I don't know why you keep stating there's no proof sugar/vodka works as there is plenty, and fully documented in German literature. It jsut isn't mainstream in the US. The theory is by promotingplanktonic bacteria, they will eat up your nitrate, but can be skimmed out (nitrate is not removed directly by skimmers)
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#9
Wayne that is exactly right. My concern with the vodka/sugar method is the reduction of oxygen and ensuring that there is a mass depletion of it detrimental to the tank overall. I think if I try this I will start with 1/8 tsp to 75g. It is an interesting concept with some very good literature to back it up. So far most of the horror stories I have read relate to moving too fast and causing a huge oxygen depleting bloom.
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#11
No the extra bacteria depletes the oxygen. Expect some water cloudiness. Having your skimmer on should ensure oxygen depletion isn't a problem, but make sure your skimmer is tuned up to actually remove the bacteria else your just shuffling organics around but keeping them in the tank (and they will eventually , annoyingly, reappear). Also beware a bouncing pH.
Your phosphates are quite high so the rowaphos is a good idea though if you've got a lot of phosphate bound to carbonate material in your tank it might take a while for anything positive to happen (and you'll go thro' a lot of rowaphos). Your blaming your cyano on nitrates you don't know the level, changes in amounts of, and old lights? SOunds like clutching at some pretty thin straws to me. What's your pH day and night, kH? How much stuff are you getting skimmed out. Any other algae problems? To get to the bottom of this I would really need to know the details of your setup (I guess they're on here somewhere), stock. How much flow do you have, how much substrate , what % covered by live rock, any sticking, concreting of said sediment. There are quite a lot of things to investigate, think about here. I'm not saying you're doing the wrong thing, but reducing an unknown level of nitrates w/ sugar is not how I'd start.
Also bear in mind your tank is still quite young, you should perhaps expect a few things like this while it stabilises.
 

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Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#12
Wayne I have never had any nitrate issues in the past, so assuming that I haven't changed anything at all with the exception of the pc bulbs burningout I am not sure what initiated the really small and relatively insignificant amount of cyano.....it is a very small amount that has shown up on the top level of my live rock in a few places.....I would say maybe in the under 3% of total surface area. I realize that nitrates don't cause the cyano but that dissolved organics (doc's) are. I do feed relatively heavy which I have cut back. I skim fairly heavily and I don't have any other issues.....that I know of. The only other thing that has changed is I have started dripping kalk mixed to 2tsp/g and I drip 1g over an 8-10 hr time frame while lights are out to ensure no ph spike. My params are ca 400 dk 4 meq/l ph 8.4 (high) and 8.3 low temp 78-80. I have a dsb about 6" avg depth with no sticky or cementing.....My bioload is really not that high I only have 2 ocellaris, 1 yellow tang, diamond gobie and a 6 line wrasse with numerous coral frags and cleanup crew......oh and I do regular w/c every 3 weeks 15% when I strip down all my equipment and clean everything......

The reason I was looking into the sugar was primarily to improve clarity and
boost skimmer function......not to cure anything as I know I have a young tank that could still see some growing pangs....
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#13
Then I think you are generally in good shape. Cyano has been around for 3.5 billion years , so expect to find a little in most tanks somewhere. If it was on the substrate it might indicate more of a problem, but on the rocks is no big deal. Odd that it's near the top of the rocks where normally flow is quite good. If you 'blow' on it thro' a piece of tube does much debris come away?
Keep on top of the DOC's and I tihnk you'll be ok, you have a realistic attitude to this. Be aware that cyano can explode overnight tho', tho' it shouldn't if you argood at tank management
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#14
Actually it is in a spot on the top rock where it is sheltered from direct flow somewhat.....I have noticed a decrease in any that was there last week after I replaced the bulb, did a 15% w/c and quit dosing kalk......

Need a good method of replacing ca.....hmmmm thinking here....
 

wayne

Elite Fish
Oct 22, 2002
4,077
3
0
#16
I would go back to kalk as I would be very surprised if it encouraged cyano. A calcium reactor is a big step in the techno hassle stakes.
 

Lorna

Elite Fish
Mar 3, 2005
3,082
4
0
NE Indiana
#18
I think a CA reactor is out of the question at the moment, lack of space, no sump.......and esthetics.......not to mention the fish/aquarium spending moratorium that has me in a budget crisis........The kalk is good but the dosing method wasn't adequate. Anyone dose kalk using the "slurry" method? I am also thinking about using Randy Farley Holmes 3 part additive using dow flake & mag flake. Sounds intriguing and has great results long term. Any other ideas from the gallery?

What does everyone else use?