sump filteration

[Atlantic Fish]

Im trying to design a sump. My problem is I dont know what to use for filter media.  Do I go with carbon and fiber filter and if I do how do I set it up or do I go with Bio balls??  ???Im lost and have no idea.  All the other equipment im pretty sure i have selected, except the filtration.  
ANY IDEAS OR PREVIOUS EXP??  Love to hear it..

 

[dattack]

Is this a fish only system or going to be a reef or a little bit of both?

 

[clothahump]

Quite a personal thing this.
My system of 42 tanks were all filtered by a big sump.
First I used Brushes used in Koi filters to make the particles fall out of suspension. Second Open pored Ceramic media. Third Loads of old sponges from 50 odd small internals I had.
Lastly into a chamber with the heaters before being returned to the tanks.
All I used to do was syphon out the Particles every 3 months.
I know of sumps similar to mine that have not been touched for a year.

 

[Atlantic Fish]

A little bit of both Dattack, I want community fish and some soft easy to take care of corals...

 

[colesea]

The only experience I have with sumps are wet/dry biotowers, and the stacked Marine Biowheel systems, which are pretty much wet/dry trickles.

The water was removed from the tanks via overflow methods, and gravity moved it down through the tower. First the water passes through a machincal filtration. In the systems I worked with, this was a fiber pad. Koi brushes do the same thing. Then beneath that was a carbon pad (or I would simply use a 2nd floss pad), then the bioweel which was rotated by the water falling on it. The sum then simply selectively channeled some of the water to UV, which was then dumped back into the sump. The sump contained the return pump, the protien skimmer, and the heating unit. Water was pumped back up into the individual tanks using the sump pump as well as powerheads on each of the independant tanks.

Wet/Dry biotowers simply work with a mechanical filter, usually a floss sleeve over the outflow, then the water is allowed to drip into a sump containing nothing but biomedia. The way this worked was that the biomedia wasn't completely submerged in water, allowing max use of oxygen. Once the water dripped to the bottom of the tower, it was concentrated again, collected into another sump to be heated, then passed through the UV before going to the tanks. This was at the lab, and ours were at least 3ft tall.

I have seen wet/dry trickle systems set up using canister filters and spare tanks filled with bioballs as sumps. How to put one together I wouldn't even know. DYI never comes with instructions, it kinda just, happens with luck.
~~Colesea

 

[eseow]

With the sump setup, the tower holding the bioballs should have filter floss above it before water hits the balls. This prevent large particles from hitting or scrubbing bacteria of the balls. As for carbon, you could place it under filter floss, before bio-balls, or after bio-balls. Usually you have a lip from the bottom of sump after the bio-balls, which allow water to rise to certain height, then flow over. Depending on the length of sump, you could have two of these overflow areas. First holding sponge after bioballs (to keep anything large from flowing downwards and ending up clogging your sump pump return pick-up, like maybe a loose bio-ball), the second could hold the carbon so water would flow through it better. All your other items such as protein skimmer, UV filter, heater, could all be placed in the sump, dumping back into the sump, so equipemnt is hidden. Some place heaters right under bio-balls tower, before sponge filter. Anyway, after you setup system. Your going to have to monitor the water conditions. Bio-ball sump filters can generate Nitrites after a while. I personally don't use it. You could pull some balls out after a while, but this could compromise the bio-filters capacity. Live Rock/Berlin System would eliminate Bio-ball system all together. Just make sure you get enough Live Rock. *celebratesmiley*

 

[Atlantic Fish]

Eseow,
What do you mean by Live Rock/Berlin System?

After talking to a few people Ive decided against the bioballs due to the nitrate problem. So if I just put in filter floss then carbon, then overflow to the plant section should that work efficently?

Few other questions:
1. What rate of GPH do I need to pump the return water from the sump to the tank, the sump will be directly under the main tank.
2. Can anyone recommend a good, quite, and resonablely priced pump?
3. Will a Seaclone 150 do the trick for my 125g tank?
4. How much live rock is enough, considering its 10.00/ pound here....
Thanks so much guys!

 

[eseow]

In a Berlin system, the live rock is your bio-filter, not a sump with bio-balls, and a protein skimmer is used also. As for nitrates, wet/dry filters allow too much water to pass through to fast. You could build a small bio-ball area, and then pass the water through macro-algae section. With live rock, you will have a slow current through the porous section of the rocks, this would allow nitrate consuming bacteria to consume the nitrates. Most systems I've seen now have a sump with very little bio-balls, and pass the water through a mud with Macro algae. This is were the nitrate and phosphates are consumed. Its basically a refugium built into sump. They excess macro-algae can then be feed to your herbivore fish such as Tangs. You would have to place a light on macro alge section though. A third section could house a heater, carbon, or protein skimmer. How complete your system is will depend on what you have in tank. I'm hearing about some people not running protein skimmer, but instead run very deep sand beds with small critters running in sand, such as baby bristle worms. I'm not to familiar with system yet, so I don't recommend it. On the average, depending on rock density, 1.0 to 1.25 lbs/gallon of live rock, such as good Fiji Live rock. As for prices, $10/lb sounds high, but it may be because of your location. You may want to try online websites. Some are "cured" rock, some aren't, the latter being cheaper, but its more work on your half to "cure" it. As far as a pump, Rainbow Life Guards are pretty powerful (1146 GPH), but rates drop as piping get longer and height from top of tank to pump. You could run there component system for filtration, Uv sterilization, chemical fitration, heeting, etc.,and  a small sump with protein skimmer and macro algae only with a small sump pump for return. As for me, I stayed away from sumps, but there are still excellent systems, extremely versatile, but can be very complex. If you build it yourself, get used to the hardware store. You'll be buying pipes and fittings for a few days to get it perfect. But its not that hard. As for Sea Clone 150, its should be fine. What really matters is how much wastes is in the water. Skimmer will get it out, but excessive amounts will need to be drained frequently if it accumulates too fast between drainings. You can run more than one skimmer if needed. Its sometimes cheaper to buy 2 of them than one really efficient one. Later, "E" *celebratesmiley*

 

[arcab4]

here's a diagram of my filtration system.

http://www.myfishtank.net/images/mytank/setupdesign.jpg

and here's a picture of the actual thing:

http://www.myfishtank.net/60/gallery/gallery_view.php?id=7&name=60

so a quick background. my tank is a 60gallon. i use a DSB (deep sand bed - highly recommended) and about 50lbs of live rock. i have a 10gallon refugium and a 20gallon sump.

so if you look at the diagram, it's pretty self-explanatory. i rely mostly on my DSB/LiveRock/Refugium/Skimmer for filtration. so far it's working great.

the only problem i have with that setup, is it's a bit noisy. noisy as in i can hear the water gurgle thro the pipes. but i think if i fine-tune the flowrate..i can eliminate that.

also, you don't need to make the refugium seperate. it can be built-in the sump. look thro the archives on reefcentral.com for other type of setups.

i would suggest a dolphin pump. stay away from RIO pumps. i use an aquaC Urchin Pro skimmer and it works great. seaclones i've read usually have problems.

live rock cost $10/lbs there? you might be better off ordering it online. try exoticfish.com or marinedepot.com for liverock and equipment.

hope that helps.

johnny

 

[dattack]

Try something like this.

 

[Atlantic Fish]

Im going the deep sand bed route, so can I just pick up really fine sand anywhere and how do I get all the bugs and stuff to start growing in there?  Dattack, in your diagram, does the first section spill over into the mid sump? and why do you section the piping into the first and second sections and not just the first??

 

[dattack]

Hey, the first section does spill over to the middle.  I like to have two separate piping to the refugium and the sump.  That's because if you have all the water overflow from the main tank into the refugium, it could quite too turbulent and might just churn the sand/macroalgae/fauna.  It's best if you get a ball valve to slow down the rate of water movement to the refugium.  
Most of the creatures/fauna in the refugium require a very slow flow rate.

Just make sure the fine sand is sugarsized .125 mm and is either silica or aragonite sand.

You can get worms/bugs/pods/stars by asking a local reefer if you can have a cup of their sand.  I don't know where in canada they sell these.  Sometimes, it just comes with the live rock purchase.