SUMP/Siphon question

[N©KI]

Okay, I created a little picture here to better ask my question... What i'm trying to achieve is a sump/overflow that maintains the siphon if the pump stops, and starts to siphon again when the pump starts.

First of all, at the bottom of the tube (A) is that supposed to be sealed? Is there any benefit to sealing it or not sealing it?

Second, next to (B) where you see the black line, is that where the water will stop in both the tube and in the overflow, but maintaining the siphon?

Or does the overflow wall in the overflow chamber have to be below the level of the water in the tank (B) ?

Does this make sense to anyone or am I nuts?

 

[wayne]

I think it makes sense. It's is worth from B rather than A as there's usually some organic film at the water surface that's worth removing by skimming it off.
I don't see anything special about the location of the balck line. Assuming it's big enough that flow rate isn't a problem, water on B and C will equalise in height. What happens between C and down to siphon - is that one thing, or is it a waterfall. If it's one compartment then water will lfow thro' the siphon and down into C and out the bottom. This will happen till C runs dry , the siphon will be broken and nothing else will happen.
If C and down-to -siphon are separated, down to siphon will dry, and water will pour from C , being refilled from B till B and C no longer have enough height to pour over to down-to-siphon. But as you're pumping from the sump into the main tank this will work.
Know that siphon are not great for this sort of thing as sooner or later they'll 'break', and something will get flooded. Any chance of getting the tank drilld? Look around for sump/overflow designs and designs, I wouldn't trust anything with a siphon in it. If the siphon breaks, you'll dry your sump, screw your pump and heater and if you're really unlucky get a nice house fire, and I bet your house insurance will squeak on coverage.

 

[N©KI]

Where is the drilling done? At the top so water can flow into the overflow and then down to the sump? Or at the bottom of the tank?

 

[N©KI]

I've decided to skip the siphon and the drilling, and just get a small powerjet pump to pump water out of the tank and into the overflow to replace the siphon. Simple. Power goes out and the whole thing stops and restarts when power is restored.

 

[RedTurquoise]

Looks good! All you need to do is seal the bottom of A and you will never lose your siphon!

http://www.angelfire.com/ok/dog1/overflow.html
http://www.ozreef.org/diy/index.html

 

[wayne at home]

No , does NOT look good - 2 pumps is a super bad idea - unless you get them in balance, and the chances of that happening are next to zero. If they're not, either the tank will empty faster than the sump can refill, or vicer versa - either way flooding, equipment burn out...... Even if you bought two 'identical' pumps, even allowing for head differences causing different flow rates, they clog/ wear out at different rates. Drilling the main tank where the thin black line intercepts, and letting it overflow straight to sump will be ok, then using a pump to move from sump to tank.
I can absolutely guarantee 2 pumps is NOT going to work. Drilling will, shame the tanks not predrilled. CPR for example make a hang on overflow I believe buut I've heard they're a bit unreliable, and this is no place for unreliability

 

[N©KI]

hmm... thanks for the advice Wayne... I was thinking that I could use flow controllers on the pumps, but your right about them wearing out and clogging at different rates. ... I suppose the siphon idea is generally safer but drilling is the best.
I'm a bit apprehensive about drilling my tank because I could see it just destroying the integrity of that wall of the tank. Hmm... decisions.

 

[wayne at home]

Yes, this isn't easy.

 

[tomanystraydogs]

Let me get some pics of my prototype for ya, it might be what your looking for.

 

[tomanystraydogs]

Pics

Then click aquarium.

From your example you might have the room for this setup.

Ignore the Magnum hanging there, it has nothing to do with moving the water back and forth.

You can see the penguin 660. It pumps from the tank to the sump.

Gravity then moves water from the sump, thru the pvc, back to the tank.

If the pump stops, a little water from the sump drains into the tank.

Just dont over fill the sump and your fine.