Tank cleaners

[AndyL]

Hey everyone,

I'm going to do some fish shopping PDQ I need some 'cleaner' fish for both of my tanks...

Current tanks are:
20G tall, housing 2 red zebra cichilids, and 3 baby (less than 1/2&quot Convicts, convicts are temporary residents until they are a sellable size.

10G housing 2 albino cories, and a school of black skirt (aka black widow) tetras, and a itty bitty Convict (not even 1/4&quot Has several Crypts all of less than 1" in size (massive pruning attempt to get rid of algae)

The 10G is suffering really bad algae problems, It got moved about 2 months ago into an area it got some morning sun, and ever since, I can't get rid of the algae (its no longer in the sun) I've tried manual cleaning, and a few chemicals... Nothings making it go away.

The algae thats appearing is some long black hairy stuff (very hard) and some brown/green algae on the sides/bottom of the tank. From some reading, I've tried upping w/c's and reducing feeding. But the stuff just keeps coming back.

So time for a fish-based solution... Suggestions? (I'd like to add a cleaning crew to the 20G too, its bottom is pretty  nasty every 3-4 days when I vacuum the gravel)

Andy

 

[Avalon]

For your 20G, I would suggest a pleco of some sort. The regular ones will do just fine, however, you should be warned theat they will eventually outgrow the tank. There are several varieties that only get to be about 3", so you will need to discuss this with your LFS clerk. I wouldn't recommend any other algae eaters because they would probably get eaten. Also, a pleco is not the most efficient algae eater on the market. I would try to keep the lighting down, maybe 15 watts per gallon. Your best bet here would be to try to stave off algae in the first place. I've also read about some cichlids that do eat algae, but I can't remember which ones they are. However, if your cichilds aren't big enough or pretty docile, you can try the following (the same for your 10G):

For your 10G, your algae problems started with the sunlight. Sunlight will murder a nice clean tank that is not heavily planted. The good news is that you have a wide variety of algae eaters at your disposal. Otocinclus are a must. I keep 3 in one of my 10G's, and they do a superb job. In addition to the oto's, I would get about 4 algae-eating shrimp (amano or yamato shrimp, NOT ghost shrimp). These guys take care of new algae growths, and will do a number on that black hair algae. It may take them a while to get to it, as they prefer the nice green stuff, but they will eventually eat it. There are other fish, but these 2 suggestions are by far the most efficient.

Now for the disclaimer:
The oto's and shrimp are really great for keeping algae at bay. Notice I never said they would cure your problem. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Here's a few tips that will help you out.

1. Keep the tanks out of sunlight!
2. Feed only once per day, and only feed what they can eat. Fish can go well over a week without being fed and not starve. But they won't grow either... I use TetraMin Pro. Your black skirt tetras will only eat about 1-2 flakes per fish per feeding. They like bloodworms also. The reason for the light feedings is that fish food contains phosphates, and phosphates + light = algae.
3. NO CHEMICALS.
4. Keep your lighting at no more than 1.5 watts per gallon, flourescent lighting.
5. Add more plants. Algae feeds on the excess nutrients in your water. Plants also feed on the same nutrients. Plants easily outcompete algae for nutrients. When you achieve a balance, there will be no visible signs of algae. You may wish to add fast growing plants like wisteria, water sprite, aponogetons, green hygro (hygrophilia polysperma), vallisneria, and anacharis. Crypts are slow growing plants btw.
6. No fertilizers without either CO2 or a very large plant load (without CO2).
7. Pray  ;D

*celebratesmiley*, Avalon

 

[AndyL]

Thanks, I did some looking, but the LPS and walmart (My only two sources of fish) don't have much of anything for bottom cleaners right now (Various cories, Some rather sick looking flying foxes, A pleco that will get HUGE (18" was what the LPS said) And some kind of pleco that looks more like a saltwater Ray (flat, long tail) That was at walmart, so no real info on it... Nothing much for good plants either. But they did have some nice swords.

Might have to look at mail-ordering in some fish and plants...

I knew the sunlight part, but the move was more for a maintenance issue. Figured the hour or so of sunrise light it got wouldn't affect it much (guess I was wrong). It was only there for 2 weeks, Now its back where it started... Wish the algae would go away! The Crypts sure loved the sunlight tho (they were growing almost an inch every day)

My worry with the 10G is with 8 tetras and the 2 cories, its pretty much maxed out for occupants. (That lil convict isn't big enough to really do anything, tho it is funny to watch it school amongst the tetras) Yeah, I know, get a bigger tank, but thats unlikely to happen soon!

The Red Zebra's are supposed to be algae eaters (at least in the wild) Not sure exactly, no algae to speak of in the 20G so they seem quite happy on the few crumbles they get fed.

Part of the problem in the 10G was when all 4 convicts were in there... The tetras are pigs, between them and the cories, the convicts weren't getting much if any food, unless I overfed. I was doing WCs (and vacuuming the gravel) every 2 days to try to compensate.

When you say no fertilizer, does that include tabs in the substrate?

Andy

 

[Avalon]

Looks like you have it kind of rough! Lots of algae and no good fish stores! Is your LPS a chain store? I don't know how customer friendly they are, but you might try to ask them if they can special order fish for you. They may be reluctant though, because they normally have to order large quantities, and they may be worried that they won't sell.

However, I can recommend you a great place to buy plants:
http://www.aquaticplantdepot.comThey have a good selection, slightly better than average prices, and from my experience, great customer service. Make sure you do not buy plants that are listed as "emersed" for your aquarium. They will die when placed under water. I buy all my plants here, except for the occasional plant in my LFS's.

For an online fish supplier, I think (not experience talking) that Aquariumfish.net ( http://www.aquariumfish.net ) would be a decent choice. They have a nice selection and average prices. The only kicker here is that shipping will run you quite a bit, like over $30. I would try to get some friends in on the order to help save some cash. They also supply "true" Siamese algae eaters, which are very desirable algae eaters to have, and often very hard to find (I've been trying to get 2 specialty stores to get them and they can't, or won't). Many fish stores like to sell "false" algae eaters as the real deal. The best way you can tell is if the fish has a black stripe running through the tail fin. False algae eaters don't. Go here to see what I mean:
http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/siamensis.html

Ideally, I would recommend that you give your tank a thorough cleaning, then add the algae eaters so they can get a head start on the algae, but if you don't have algae eaters, it's really hard to get rid of multiple types of algae. You could rip the tank apart and put it back up, but I garauntee you that your algae will return within 2 weeks. Your best bet would be to order a lot of plants (6-8 bunches) and try to get them up and running (after a tank cleaning). The algae eaters are still neccessary though. Three otocinclus and 4 algae eating shrimp would be sufficient, and would not create a problem with your fish load. Your new plants would also serve as a tiny filter as well. The high fish load would actually benefit your plants.

I'm really curious as to the info I'm missing. I threw together a 10G tank for my mollies to breed. There are minimal plants, and minimal algae. I just throw in extra clippings that I have and don't want to throw away. I've never had an issue with it.

If you would, tell me your water parameters:
PH, KH, GH, Nitrites, Nitrates, temp, and phosphates if you can. Any of the above would be great, particularly PH, temp and Nitrates.

What lights are you using? What brand, type (incandescent, flourescent, power compact), and wattage. How long do you leave them on?

And yes, when I said fertilizer, I meant all types, tabs, sticks, and liquids.

 

[fishysmell]

ya if your going to order algae eaters get the siamese (i cant spell) algae eaters and maybe a few ottocats for the green stuff.  The SAE's will eat just about every kind of algae so they will help you out quite a bit.  Now all you have to do is be able to afford the shipping costs.

 

[AndyL]

Sorry rough week, hard to find time to stop in and yak fish.

Anyway, We've got the algae under control (nasty ol pleco for the 20G, and a pair of "Siamese Algae eaters" (from reading they probably aren't) for the 10g.) The 10G is amazingly clean, I didn't even have a chance to clean it up prior to adding the algae eaters. It's sure clean now! (except for some nasty black hairy algae growing off some of the crypts)

Pet stores here aren't great... They generally get what they get, and thats about all we can ask for. They did have some "amano" shrimp, but I'll wait on those (they also looked suspiciously like ghost shrimp). I was pretty lucky, I got to the good one the day after they got a BIG order in!

Added some serious plants to both tanks, a couple BIG bunches of amazon sword for the 20G, the 10G got a mid-sized bunch of Hygrophilia (spelling might be wrong) and a whole lot of val (forget the name, had blue in it tho).

My PH is pretty steady at 8.0, and is fairly hard. My tanks both are set at a temp of 29C, but temperatures have been over 35 in the house a lot lately, so the heaters probably haven't been on more than twice in the last 2 weeks

I do WCs usually twice per week, so nitrates are rarely over 10ppm, I've never gotten a nitrite reading...

Lights on the 10G is a 15w flourescent (its about 6" long, shaped like a U) 20G has I believe a 25w flourescent.. Both are the original bulbs, so it's doubtful they'd be full spectrums.

I was really bad tho... And I screwed up to boot! Bought some new liquid fertilizer due to the addition of all these new plants...  Added per directions, then looked a little more closely at it... Whoops! "Plant GRO NPK Aquatic Plant fertilizer" "Benefits planted aquariums employing CO2 and/or intense lighting" "0.6 - 0.3 - 2.6" Guess we'll be doing a bit of water changing tomorow to cut down how much is in the tanks.

I'll just tell the wife I needed it for 'kickstarter' yeah, thats it!

Meanwhile, I did find time this week to finally replace the substrate in the 10G (went from some nasty blue and green gravel to some nice uncolored gravel) Fertilizer tabs went out too. (I might be regretting that, I'm out and I couldn't find any at the LPS; reason for buying the liquid)

Anywhos, thanks for all the help everyone!

Andy

 

[Jenniferhowe]

I agree that the plants will help with the algea. A good source for all Aquarium supplies is Pet Warehouse. The prices are really good and they have just about everything. Even plants and Fish.  *thumbsupsmiley*