Tank Crash. Lost Royal Gramma, Saddle Valentini, Papuan Toby, Help!

[MatthewLaw]

Greetings All- I brought home a Papuan Toby for my 29g tank. Everyone was fine in the tank last night and then this morning I found the royal gramma nad saddled valentini dead. the papuan toby then died a few hours later. none of the fish showed any signs of fighting, torn fins, etc.

i brought a water sample to my LFS and the lady said my pH was very low (low 7s). I tested the water BEFORE bringing it in and the pH was about 8.3. I buff every week when I perform 15% water changes. All other paramters are unremarkable. temperature was about 77 degrees.

The only occupants left are my green chromis and flase perc. Both fish are swimming around so that is hopeful.

what could have killed my fish overnight. especially the papuan toby that only lived in my tank for about 18 hours?

 

[MatthewLaw]

green chromis died last night. the false percs are in two other tanks.

WHat do I do with the 30g tank? Move LR to another tank or is there a risk of contamination?

 

[Lotus]

If a puffer dies in a tank, it can release poison. It's possible if the puffer died first, it has poisoned the tank. Water changes and carbon may help.

My guess is that the extra fish may have been too much for the tank. You do have a lot of fish in a small tank that isn't very old.

 

[MatthewLaw]

Thanks for the response. The valentini was in the tank for over 2 weeks and no problems occured. THEN the koralias and the papua toby were introduced friday night and on saturday morning the gramma and valentini were dead. I am trying to figure out what happened in order for the valentini and gramma to die literally overnight.

at this point changing the filters and adding carbon is suggested? then would you suggest adding a green chromis and see if he survives?

 

[quaddity]

Bad Koralia leaking voltage into the water possibly?

 

[sunnymittu]

puffer cant kill the hole tank until it rots
my personel experience says that
example
i put my all the fishes in QT tank for treatment
but sadly they died(due to over dose)
there was two dead fish
one was starts and strips puffer
how ever two fishes were still alive
and they are still alive
what ph buffer have you been using in your tank
list all the liquids you use to put in your tank
then we can help you more
must have been due to some liquids(which you have been putting )
my experience says ph incresers are bit leathal and stressfull for new fishes sometime older established fishes too
there is a less possibility for amonia poisioning
as you said water condition was good
so eradicate that
dont put chromis back
ok

 

[sunnymittu]

CHECK THIS OUT
MAYBE THIS HELPS YOU
Fish Disease - Ammonia Poisoning

 

[MatthewLaw]

i thought about the bad koralias. but wouldn't that have killed them ALL much quicker? the valentini and gramma were killed overnight. the toby died later that day as the green chromis much later. i thought an electrical shock like that was instant death.

i have looked at their gills and have not seen the typical 'red' of amonia. i have performed about 10 sets of the standard (pH, amonia, nitrite, nitrate) tests and all values read 8.2., 0, 0, 10. i have been buffing before I purchased my CUC and have buffed every week since without any issues to the other fish.

i think something happened between the toby and valentini. small tank and they couldn't get along so the valentini was killed and relased it toxins as a defense. the smaller, weaker fish died first, then the hardier fish.

thanks for all your help!

 

[Lotus]

To be honest, I think you did stock too heavily and too fast. Your tank is just over two months old, but you already had five or six fish in there, which is probably too many anyway.

I prefer to only add a fish a month (after three or four weeks of quarantine). I never make tank changes at the same time as adding fish. Perhaps I'm too cautious, but making incremental changes and leaving things to settle for more than a few weeks makes it easier to work out what went wrong. If you only change one thing at a time, it's easier to work out what went wrong.

Sorry about your fish

 

[MatthewLaw]

Thanks for the help. I added each fish at least two weeks after the previous fish. THe fish that were added had been in my LFS's tank for a few weeks so basically used the store as my quarantine tank.

Maybe a fish every month is a better idea. I think the ultimate culprit was the papuan toby.

what do you recommend to 'revive' the tank now?

 

[Lorna]

Sorry about your losses, do as Lotus suggested, water change, carbon and I hope all works out. Slow down and add the least aggressive fish first, go slowly as you will need your tank to adjust after each addition. Good luck!

 

[MatthewLaw]

thanks for the help. can i keep my LR and substrate?

should i get a new biowheel AND carbon filters or just the filters/biowheel?

Thanks. -Matt

Would you suggest doing a near 100% WC as well?

How do I know when to add a green chromis to see if everything is fixed?

 

[Lotus]

I doubt the live rock/sand/biowheel will have a future problem. Definitely change the carbon inserts for fresh carbon, and put a bag of carbon in the filter for a few days. A couple of 25% water changes, along with the carbon should clear it up. I'd leave it at least 24 or 48 hours running with carbon before trying to add a fish.

If you're worried about the Biowheel, take it out and bleach it, followed by thorough rinsing and dechlorinating, then allow to dry before putting it back.

 

[MatthewLaw]

thanks for the help!!

should i shut down the protein skimmer too until the new fish is added, or does that not really matter?

 

[Lotus]

I'd keep the protein skimmer going. It's quite possible the tetrotoxin is protein based.

 

[MatthewLaw]

oh ok. the skimmer is still producing a good amount of foam and no fish have been present or about 24 hours. granted this could just be 'old' bioload.

 

[Okayamapiper]

Usually when a puffer, boxfish or cowfish releases poison in a tank, the skimmer will skim off the poison and the skimmate will be big, clear bubbles like in a bubble bath. Usually the combination of a skimmer and carbon in the sump is enough to neutralize or remove most of the poison before any serious damage can occur. At least that has been my past experience. Does your tank have a skimmer? If so, did you notice any changes in the output?

As for your tank, I'd wait a few weeks before putting anything in. Do a 50% water change and let it cycle for a few weeks to play it safe. In the meantime you can QT a fish at home with a small 10 gallon. Many LFS tanks use a common filter so whatever parasite or disease that is in the other tanks will get into your "QT". If each tank has its own isolated filter, then all you have to worry about is what is living in that filter or gravel, but that is still a source for problems. Bare bottom QT using osmotic shock therapy is the safest route IMHO. I do this with with an ozone reactor to kill off any free swimming bacteria and sometimes do formalin dips should it be necessary.

 

[Lorna]

good advice Okayama..... and welcome to mft

 

[MatthewLaw]

Okayamapiper- THANKS FOR THE HELP!! I am using a Venturi skimmer. On sunday, there was a lot of foam and big bubbles coming up the skimmer's chamber and into the cup. I usually have a small amount of foam but this was an unusually large amount, especially since there weren't any fish in the tank!

I performed a 50%+ WC yesterday afternoon and put in new filters into my biowheel 200.
At this point, there is hardly ANY foam being produced.

I will pick up a 'cheap' SW fish on Friday and put him in my barebottom QT for a few weeks. During that time I will monitor the tank and ensure that if any cycle has occured, the cycle is over ONCE I decide to put the fish in.

Would you recommend doing 15% WC's weekly during this period? WHen the tank was 'safely' running I did this although my nitrates were between 10-20.

Thanks for all your help!