I have a 55-gal saltwater tank I changed from a 30 gal. I took the live rock from my 30 and put it in my 55. Tomorrow I am getting 25lbs more live rock thats cured so that I will have 50lbs of live rock. The live rock I have now is dead I have 2 powerheads that each go for 6hrs one at a time. I have a wet/dry biological filter. marine lighting 80 watts. I bought 12 trochus snails and 12 hermit crabs doing fine and 12 blue damsels. My salt level is 21, no nitrites, 20 nitrates no ammonia and 8 ph. I put some cycle in my tank for some bacteris but i now have 1 fish left 3 days later. I understand they die off to help with the bacteria cycling process. they are decaying and the crabs are eating some of them. Should I buy more fish? Should I let the ones decay? Shoukld I wait until the other live rock comes in tomorrow to see if it will help my tank? Thanks
**Tank Cycling A Saltwater 55-Gal**
- Thread starter xxnonamexx
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So you actually have 25 pounds of live rock and 30 pounds of dead base?
Why don't you the powerheads on all the time? You really need as much circulation as you can manage - point them at each other to make it more 'chaotic'.
I honestly can't believe you bought 12 damsels as cannon fodder to aid in cycling. The aim of cycling is to AVOID KILLING FISH. No you should not buy more ,and you should remove the corpses as you will have such an extreme ammonia spike in your tank it will kill everything else, including possibly your live rock.
I have to say this level of animal neglect is probably illegal, as well as inhumane. Were you told to do this by a horribly misguuided shop? I can only suggest you check ammonia and nitrite levels in your tank and try to bring them to reasonable values (below 1) a.s.a.p., and then do a heck of a lot of reading.
Why don't you the powerheads on all the time? You really need as much circulation as you can manage - point them at each other to make it more 'chaotic'.
I honestly can't believe you bought 12 damsels as cannon fodder to aid in cycling. The aim of cycling is to AVOID KILLING FISH. No you should not buy more ,and you should remove the corpses as you will have such an extreme ammonia spike in your tank it will kill everything else, including possibly your live rock.
I have to say this level of animal neglect is probably illegal, as well as inhumane. Were you told to do this by a horribly misguuided shop? I can only suggest you check ammonia and nitrite levels in your tank and try to bring them to reasonable values (below 1) a.s.a.p., and then do a heck of a lot of reading.
I heard you can cycle a tank with fish I read about it in order to get some bacteria in my tank. I also used cycle. my nitrates, ammonia, nitrites, ph are perfect. I heard to bury the corpses I have the powerheads so that one goes on for 6 hrs then the other one goes on for another 6 like the way the ocean works. I read it in a book that this is proper way to do it. I heard that the fish test the water and the deaths mean I have not enough bacteria to get it going yet.
Well from my limited knowledge on the subject... from reading Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies.... and my semi-relevant Freshwater expeirince...
You can cycle a tank with fish, and I have heard that Damsels are good hardy fish, and also on the cheaper side... I was told by my local Petco, who DO have some really good people...
that if we wanted tog et fish et one or two Damsels to help the process along... 12 is a bit extreme they will create more Ammonia than a still cycling tank is equipped to handle.
it could be tat your Hermit Crabs are the culprit... 20 Nitrates is fairly high is it not? pehaps doing a 25% water change would help.
I have heard that the decaying fish wil help cycle the tank, but if you are using the rock from the 30 gallon you really shouldn't have much cycling to do...(in theory anyway)
no for personal experience.. I started a freshwater about 2 -3 months ago, in the first month I put 31 fish in my 55 gallon tank, I had 2 power filters running on it a Penguin 330 and a Millenium. I am now down to 8 fish in that tank... my Nitrites got way out of control, and that probably stressed a LOT of the fish, they then contracted ICK and it ran rampant through my tank, 1 moth of treatment and 23 dead fish later I have healthy fish...
I bought a new tank and am fishless cycling it right now... I added ammonia to my water, I added one capful on a 1 quart jub thinking that would put me at 5ppm, it actualy was well over 8 ppm, using the cartridges from my existing tank... it took 2 1/2 days to cycle the Ammonia completely out. I am expecting to be done cycling by the end of the week. Not too long to wait if you ask me. I have heard though that it takes longer for Marine Aquariums...
I just added Ammonia to my new 55 gal Marine Aquarium today... no cycle no live rock, just a crushed coral base... I'll keep you posted on how long it cycles... I added one capful this tie and my ammonia is off of the charts... IF you add Ammonia I would say do 1/8 tsp at a time...
Also you said Nitrites and Ammonia are perfect... this means 0 correct? because I noticed you said Nitrates were at 20 and that is high not perfect
You can cycle a tank with fish, and I have heard that Damsels are good hardy fish, and also on the cheaper side... I was told by my local Petco, who DO have some really good people...
that if we wanted tog et fish et one or two Damsels to help the process along... 12 is a bit extreme they will create more Ammonia than a still cycling tank is equipped to handle.
it could be tat your Hermit Crabs are the culprit... 20 Nitrates is fairly high is it not? pehaps doing a 25% water change would help.
I have heard that the decaying fish wil help cycle the tank, but if you are using the rock from the 30 gallon you really shouldn't have much cycling to do...(in theory anyway)
no for personal experience.. I started a freshwater about 2 -3 months ago, in the first month I put 31 fish in my 55 gallon tank, I had 2 power filters running on it a Penguin 330 and a Millenium. I am now down to 8 fish in that tank... my Nitrites got way out of control, and that probably stressed a LOT of the fish, they then contracted ICK and it ran rampant through my tank, 1 moth of treatment and 23 dead fish later I have healthy fish...
I bought a new tank and am fishless cycling it right now... I added ammonia to my water, I added one capful on a 1 quart jub thinking that would put me at 5ppm, it actualy was well over 8 ppm, using the cartridges from my existing tank... it took 2 1/2 days to cycle the Ammonia completely out. I am expecting to be done cycling by the end of the week. Not too long to wait if you ask me. I have heard though that it takes longer for Marine Aquariums...
I just added Ammonia to my new 55 gal Marine Aquarium today... no cycle no live rock, just a crushed coral base... I'll keep you posted on how long it cycles... I added one capful this tie and my ammonia is off of the charts... IF you add Ammonia I would say do 1/8 tsp at a time...
Also you said Nitrites and Ammonia are perfect... this means 0 correct? because I noticed you said Nitrates were at 20 and that is high not perfect
I really don't like cycling tanks with damsels - I don't see the point. Most people end up not wanting the damsels, and I don't feel it's morally very clever to remove fish from the ocean to drown them in urine. As far as I can tell it's much only promoted by the worst sort of lfs's, and remnant guides to setup in the 70's.
If you set up a tank using live rock and a naturally based filtration system cycling is easier, faster and a whole lot more ethically sound. If you really want a source of ammonia try a dead shrimp. There really is no point to subjecting a fish to this kind of abuse.
Druxcyck - you are creating a saltwater tank with no live rock and a crsh coral substrate. I'm goingto be harsh, did your lfs tell you to set that up - I've read 'Dummies guide to saltwater' and I know that book doesn't recommend a setup like yours. Unfortunately my opinion is that your setup, while not doomed to failure, is not easy to maintain - it will be more prone to pollution, algae problems and the horrors of tank crashes. This is the traditional 'difficult' type of setup. Have you read Mike Palettas 'New MArine Aquarium' - I can't recommend this book to much for beginners, and he has some harsh words on thistype of setup. You will never be able to keep any but the hardiest inverts inyour tank, and many fish will be difficult too as without live rock ot browse on they will be condemned to malnutrition. I know live rock isn't cheap, but it really is the dominant filtration system now because it works, and it's the easiest to make work.
Harsh word I'm afraid, but I feel it's better you know than you continue to press on till it hurts
If you set up a tank using live rock and a naturally based filtration system cycling is easier, faster and a whole lot more ethically sound. If you really want a source of ammonia try a dead shrimp. There really is no point to subjecting a fish to this kind of abuse.
Druxcyck - you are creating a saltwater tank with no live rock and a crsh coral substrate. I'm goingto be harsh, did your lfs tell you to set that up - I've read 'Dummies guide to saltwater' and I know that book doesn't recommend a setup like yours. Unfortunately my opinion is that your setup, while not doomed to failure, is not easy to maintain - it will be more prone to pollution, algae problems and the horrors of tank crashes. This is the traditional 'difficult' type of setup. Have you read Mike Palettas 'New MArine Aquarium' - I can't recommend this book to much for beginners, and he has some harsh words on thistype of setup. You will never be able to keep any but the hardiest inverts inyour tank, and many fish will be difficult too as without live rock ot browse on they will be condemned to malnutrition. I know live rock isn't cheap, but it really is the dominant filtration system now because it works, and it's the easiest to make work.
Harsh word I'm afraid, but I feel it's better you know than you continue to press on till it hurts
Wayne,
I'll re-read the substrate chapter of the book. I was under the impression that while crushed coral doesn't come stocked with the bacteria you need, it would hold it quite nicely, along with a few peices of "Dead Coral" that I have in my tank.
I didn't really read through the substrate chapter of the book because I had already bought the crushed coral, unfortuneatlly, I haven't found a good LFS, and I am going to the local Petco. They have several people that know much about freshwater aquariums, I guess not as much about Saltwater, they do keep their fish in good health there though, much better than the one LFS I did manage to find, and 100 ties better than Petsmart... anyway back to the point, they didn't have any "live" rock, only "live" sand and the person I talked to said that the sand would help the aquarium cycle, but the crushed coral would be better, because the sand would be much harder to clean and get sucked up through the gravel cleaner.
At any rate do you know anywhere I can get live rock online? a good reputable dealer? or will Live sand work just as well, or should I remove the Coral and put the live sand underneath of it, therby eliminating the gravel cleansing problem while still getting the bacteria benifit.
I'll re-read the substrate chapter of the book. I was under the impression that while crushed coral doesn't come stocked with the bacteria you need, it would hold it quite nicely, along with a few peices of "Dead Coral" that I have in my tank.
I didn't really read through the substrate chapter of the book because I had already bought the crushed coral, unfortuneatlly, I haven't found a good LFS, and I am going to the local Petco. They have several people that know much about freshwater aquariums, I guess not as much about Saltwater, they do keep their fish in good health there though, much better than the one LFS I did manage to find, and 100 ties better than Petsmart... anyway back to the point, they didn't have any "live" rock, only "live" sand and the person I talked to said that the sand would help the aquarium cycle, but the crushed coral would be better, because the sand would be much harder to clean and get sucked up through the gravel cleaner.
At any rate do you know anywhere I can get live rock online? a good reputable dealer? or will Live sand work just as well, or should I remove the Coral and put the live sand underneath of it, therby eliminating the gravel cleansing problem while still getting the bacteria benifit.
PS. The words weren't harsh at all, I canadvice/constructive critism, afterall I don't want to repeat my freshwater fiasco
Also I just re-read the substrate chapter and it didn't indicate one substrate versus the other, it also said that Live Rock really didn't fit with a fish - only aquarium, because there won't be enough biological load and the fish will eat the "little critters" as the author calls them.
At this point I am planning a fish only aquarium because I AM a SW Newbie and fish are more forgiving than Coral/Invertabrea's
so my thinking right now is to start off with some damsels..the yellow tial variety (I actually like them) some clown fish and a Picasso Triggerfish..not all at once mind you but over the course of a month or two....
Maybe after that I'll add an amonome for the Clownfish. I figure that the Amonome will stand a good chance of living with the trigger fish because of it's ability to sting.
Also I just re-read the substrate chapter and it didn't indicate one substrate versus the other, it also said that Live Rock really didn't fit with a fish - only aquarium, because there won't be enough biological load and the fish will eat the "little critters" as the author calls them.
At this point I am planning a fish only aquarium because I AM a SW Newbie and fish are more forgiving than Coral/Invertabrea's
so my thinking right now is to start off with some damsels..the yellow tial variety (I actually like them) some clown fish and a Picasso Triggerfish..not all at once mind you but over the course of a month or two....
Maybe after that I'll add an amonome for the Clownfish. I figure that the Amonome will stand a good chance of living with the trigger fish because of it's ability to sting.
hi druxcyck,
you really shouldn't be adding any ammonia or anything like that to a tank. the best way to let a tank cycle is to just let it go naturally and then add stuff after all of the cycle is complete.
i totally agree with you wayne. cycling a tank with fish is one of the most inhumane things i can think of. if your that un-serious about the hobby, then don't start it. killing a living being to just get another that will probably die just to satisfy you is definetly not the way to go. serious thumbs down to anybody who does that.
and xxnonamexx, that was one of the most careless things that i have ever heard anybody do. i couldn't believe my eyes when i read what you did to those fish. honestly, i think you should get rid of your fish tanks and start up a new hobby that doesn't involve living creatures. 12 damsels...
you really shouldn't be adding any ammonia or anything like that to a tank. the best way to let a tank cycle is to just let it go naturally and then add stuff after all of the cycle is complete.
i totally agree with you wayne. cycling a tank with fish is one of the most inhumane things i can think of. if your that un-serious about the hobby, then don't start it. killing a living being to just get another that will probably die just to satisfy you is definetly not the way to go. serious thumbs down to anybody who does that.
and xxnonamexx, that was one of the most careless things that i have ever heard anybody do. i couldn't believe my eyes when i read what you did to those fish. honestly, i think you should get rid of your fish tanks and start up a new hobby that doesn't involve living creatures. 12 damsels...
Druxcyck - I may need to reread Dummies guide - however if it's saying that live rock won't work for a fish only tank , then basically it's talking rubbish. There are some situation when FO tanks for real big, messy fish will overpower the filtration in a LR system and people rely on wet/drys and a whole lot of other complex technology, but as a newbie I can assure you you do NOT want to go there - it is on another planet maintenance wise.
More constructive criticism - you son't want to bother with inverts like corals as they are difficult (yes, and unforgiving of poor maintenance), but you do want an anemonae - well I can assure you anemonae are pretty much as tough to keep alive as you can imagine - if you want to keep one, you will be going to reef standards of lighting and water quality. A desirable, but not a good choice. They can live for centuries in the wild, I doubt 5% of captive ones survive more than 6 months.
Picasso triggers can grow fast, and get big for a 55. Shame, they are nice. They will eat inverts too, including the anemonae. Yellow tail damsels aren't a bad choice , I like these too.
Not all inverts are hard, some are pretty easy.
Substrate - I don't like crush coral as usually it's too coarse and debris gets stuck in the gaps and becomes a nitrate farm. I like sand myself - if you're careful you can hoover of the top, and when it becomes live it'll keep itself clean. Snaila and hermits will help clean it too. Some people like thin, some people deep sand beds - you need to read up on this.
If I was you I'd first get Mike Palettas book, as well as a few other modern books by Martin Moe or Robert Fenner. I'd take the 55, keep what lighting it has (what has it). Brew up the water, put in a thin layer of sand. Leave it a few days to settle, keep powerheads running. Put in a bag or 2 of live sand. Put in live rock, leave it till ammonia and nitrite are zero. Leave it some more. Put in some hermits as a clean up crew. Check levels. Leave a week, put in yellow tail damsel. Then slowly add other fish, and see what inverts come out of live rock.
This will take a while, but you should get a good stable, simple system that doesn't kill you.
Go to find lfs's - have you done a google search on 'Aquarium Daytona Beach' - go to some of the places listed and see if they're any good. How do they do it, what do they recommend? Tell them you want it simple. For godsake don't rely on petco - been to coralreefexpress.com
More constructive criticism - you son't want to bother with inverts like corals as they are difficult (yes, and unforgiving of poor maintenance), but you do want an anemonae - well I can assure you anemonae are pretty much as tough to keep alive as you can imagine - if you want to keep one, you will be going to reef standards of lighting and water quality. A desirable, but not a good choice. They can live for centuries in the wild, I doubt 5% of captive ones survive more than 6 months.
Picasso triggers can grow fast, and get big for a 55. Shame, they are nice. They will eat inverts too, including the anemonae. Yellow tail damsels aren't a bad choice , I like these too.
Not all inverts are hard, some are pretty easy.
Substrate - I don't like crush coral as usually it's too coarse and debris gets stuck in the gaps and becomes a nitrate farm. I like sand myself - if you're careful you can hoover of the top, and when it becomes live it'll keep itself clean. Snaila and hermits will help clean it too. Some people like thin, some people deep sand beds - you need to read up on this.
If I was you I'd first get Mike Palettas book, as well as a few other modern books by Martin Moe or Robert Fenner. I'd take the 55, keep what lighting it has (what has it). Brew up the water, put in a thin layer of sand. Leave it a few days to settle, keep powerheads running. Put in a bag or 2 of live sand. Put in live rock, leave it till ammonia and nitrite are zero. Leave it some more. Put in some hermits as a clean up crew. Check levels. Leave a week, put in yellow tail damsel. Then slowly add other fish, and see what inverts come out of live rock.
This will take a while, but you should get a good stable, simple system that doesn't kill you.
Go to find lfs's - have you done a google search on 'Aquarium Daytona Beach' - go to some of the places listed and see if they're any good. How do they do it, what do they recommend? Tell them you want it simple. For godsake don't rely on petco - been to coralreefexpress.com
If your willing to take a drive across the state you can get some good aquacultured live rock from Gulf-View or Tampa Bay Salt Water . Both places sell Florida aquacultured live rock and good prices, you may be able to pick your own pieces, and you won't have to pay shipping.
Brian
Brian