tank cycling?

[bear123]

hey. I've got a 20 gallon freshwater setup with eclipse filtration, about 17 lbs. of lace rock and a stealth heater. The tank has been running now for around 3 and a half weeks and i've still got high nitrites and a little ammonia.

after about the 1st week i put in 3 platies to start off the cycle. 1 died a few days ago. The other 2 are currently doing fine.

Are there any ideas to help speed up the cycle naturally? I was thinking about putting in a moss ball, but if that dies in the tank, its just gonna put me back to square one in the cycling process.

Thanks...

ps: i plan on making this into a brackish tank to hold 1 or 2 figure 8 puffers, but I figured since its still a freshwater tank, I would post in the freshwater section until the water is ready to go.

 

[achase]

I would check out this article on the fishless cycle......Fishless Cycle

 

[bear123]

thanks for the article... I read it and it sounds like something I can do, but I already have 2 platies in my tank. Should I take them out and go buy "pure ammonia" or bottled bacteria?

The one thing I can certainly do is more water changes. I've been doing weekly water changes.. How much more do you advise??

 

[achase]

I have never cycled with fish so I don't know about the water changes. But on this site (Cycling a fish tank) it states that you shouldn't do water changes expect every two weeks. Here is another site that might be helpful: How to Cycle a Fish Tank - Oscarfishlover.com

If you wanted to do the fishless cycle you could possibly take the fish back to the petstore you purchased them from.

 

[OrangeCones]

If you wait for two weeks to do a water change, the ammonia or nitrite levels may be high enough to hurt/kill the fish.

If you are going to do a fish-in cycle, it would be more humane to continue with water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite levels low. Granted, this may delay the cycling, but the fish have a better chance of living through it.

Just my 2cents.

 

[lauraf]

I agree with OrangeCones. Either you enjoy the fish you have and want to keep them for at least some time, in which case you need to do partial water changes almost daily and it will take longer for your tank to be ready for any more fish; or, you want to skip to the fun stuff, be able to start stocking your tank more fully with the brackish fish (gradually, mind you - you can't put everything in at once!) then you should return the platies and do the pure ammonia route. Bacteria-in-a-bottle worked for me long ago, but I understand it's really hit-and-miss.
In both cases you should be testing your water daily for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate until the cycle is completed. And yes, if you get some gooey java moss from a healthy established tank, it will help seed yours with the good bacteria, and speed up the cycle a bit.
Let us know what route you choose!

BTW, achase, this link you posted above: "But on this site (Cycling a fish tank) it states that you shouldn't do water changes except every two weeks. "

It's based on a fishkeeper expecting their cycling fish to die for the sake of building the bacteria! Not your fault, I know you are a humane fishless-cycle person, but I just wanted to point out why that link doesn't advise doing regular water changes.

 

[bear123]

if i took out the fish now, and started using the pure ammonia, wouldnt that bring me back to square one? since the ammonia in my tank has started to convert into nitrites already?

and how long should i wait to put in the moss ball after i put in the ammonia?

and after the ammonia, is there any other additive i should use?

 

[achase]

BTW, achase, this link you posted above: "But on this site (Cycling a fish tank) it states that you shouldn't do water changes except every two weeks. "

It's based on a fishkeeper expecting their cycling fish to die for the sake of building the bacteria! Not your fault, I know you are a humane fishless-cycle person, but I just wanted to point out why that link doesn't advise doing regular water changes

I totally didn't know that was why they weren't doing water changes. I have never done anything besides the fishless-cycle. I must admit I was confused as to why they weren't doing water changes. I didn't read the article all that well which I guess I should have before passing on bad advice. I really should just let you and Orangecones give advice!! Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

 

[lauraf]

I totally didn't know that was why they weren't doing water changes. I have never done anything besides the fishless-cycle. I must admit I was confused as to why they weren't doing water changes. I didn't read the article all that well which I guess I should have before passing on bad advice. I really should just let you and Orangecones give advice!! Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

No worries achase! I knew it wasn't your method of cycling.
And OC is the real expert here, not me. I still jes lurnin'

But bear, if I understand cycling correctly, you actually can continue the cycling with ammonia once your platies are removed. What the fish are doing is contributing ammonia through their poop, but by using bottled ammonia you are in charge of the ammonia supply. The bacteria that eats ammonia and turns it into nitrite needs a constant food source - thus the nitrite that's already there will 'starve' if you remove the fish but don't feed ammonia. When the nitrite levels are high enough, they feed the other kind of bacteria that turns it into nitrate. Then you have a cycle established: the ammonia is being eaten right away by the bacteria that turns it into nitrite right away and the nitrite is eaten right away by the other bacteria that turns it into nitrate, and nitrate is safe for fish at low levels. Once you have this 'eating' cycle established, you stop being the ammonia source and add some fish to poop out a regular ammonia source for the bacteria.
I don't know if your plants will suffer greatly from the ammonia spikes while you continue with a fishless cycle - please let someone else answer that.

 

[OrangeCones]

I don't know if your plants will suffer greatly from the ammonia spikes while you continue with a fishless cycle - please let someone else answer that.

Healthy aquatic plants love ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.

 

[bear123]

I decided to let the cycle complete itself with the 2 platies i have in the tank right now. I just did a water test with my new API kit and these are my parameters:

I havent tested water on my own in a long time, but your supposed to view the color of the water sample from the top of the open test tube, correct? Because my nitrates matched the color of 10-20 ppm from the side of the test tube, but from the top down, the color matched with 40-80 ppm

Ammonia- .25 ppm
Nitrite- 5.0 ppm
Nitrate- 40- 80 ppm

Thanks

 

[OrangeCones]

With nitrites that high, you should do large water changes until you can get it under 0.5 for the health of your fish. Be sure to match the temperature of the change water to the tank water so temperature changes don't shock the fish.

Also, add aquarium salt to the tank as per the directions on the box and increase aeration in the tank (either an airstone or if you have a waterfall-type filter, lower the water a bit so it splashes more. This will help the fish cope physically with high nitrites.

I read the test tubes from the top down.

What dechlorinator do you use?

 

[lauraf]

Yup, what OC said. Do at least 50% water changes daily, and if you aren't using Prime as your dechlor, you should start. It will also help with the stress your platies are enduring from the cycling.
Keep us posted about your cycling progress.
Cheers,
Laura

 

[bear123]

the eclipse filter output is doing a pretty good job at splashing the surface of the water for increased aeration. I just did another 25 % water change today.

To remove chlorine and neutralize chloramines from the tap water, I use API Stress Coat, the Fish & Tap Water Conditioner.

I dont use freshwater aquarium salt, because I had planned on just using instant ocean marine salt for when I get the puffers.

I'll test for nitrites tomorrow and keep you updated.

Thanks

 

[achase]

What type of Puffers are you getting?

 

[OrangeCones]

To remove chlorine and neutralize chloramines from the tap water, I use API Stress Coat, the Fish & Tap Water Conditioner.

If the product does not say it also neutralizes (or binds) ammonia and your tap water does contain chloramine, keep in mind you are ADDING ammonia to the water when you do water changes.

API makes one that does and one that doesn't neutralize ammonia.

 

[bear123]

the conditioner does not say anything about neutralizing ammonia.

and I plan on putting in figure 8 puffers

 

[Dr. Laser]

Quick question i caught and am now keeping two iron colored shiner fry and do a 60% water change in their 1 gallon container a day (they are no longer than 1/8th of an inch and i have plans to acquire a 30 gallon) but here's my question. this is just a plastic container that happens to hold a gallon so how do i go about establishing plants? I also have an air stone rated for one gallon will that help with anything? i also keep the pH at 7.6 will the daily 60%water changes be enough to keep the amonia/nitrite/nitrate levels down?