Tank Dimension & Volume

[Cichlidian]

One of the primary thing to have in mind when it comes to fish keeping is Tank Size. Everything is dependent on the size of the tank. Almost everywhere the tank size is expressed in volume(gallons). What I feel is when it comes to cichlids, more than volume dimension means more.
For eg., I had a pair of 9" oscars in a 55 gal tank with the dimension 48"(l)x18"(b)x15"(h) and later on i moved it to a 90 gal tank with the dimension 48"(l)x18"(b)x24"(h). But what i found is the oscars felt no difference. So it sounds like cichlids are more concerned bout length and to an extend width and no botheration for height. I've set up many central american cichlid tanks and saw tht they seldom use more than 1 ft high. But i should point out an exception, Angels who require height rather than length.
Why i took this topic is most of cichlid hobbyists seem to bother more on volume than dimension. I'm not sure of the case of others but when it comes to cichlids the dimension has to be taken into account.
Taking another eg.., a full grown oscar would be stressed in an approx 44 gal tank of dimension 36"(l)x15"(b)x24"(h) and would feel relatively free in a 44 gal tank of dimension 48"x15"x15".
Wht do u guys feel bout it. I'd defenitely welcome suggestions or arguments.

 

[TaffyFish]

I think you lend too much importance to length alone as your example is of a very large size cichlid, the Oscar.
Most cichlid hobbyists would agree that footprint (length x width) rather than water volume is of primary importance since most cichlids establish territory at the substrate level.
There are exceptions of course, like angels as you point out, but as the vast majority seem to be substrate spawners (even those who then go on to mouthbrood) territoriality means that the footprint will determine your stocking levels.
From observing territorial behaviours in Tanganyikans I have witnessed many species defend an area of the substrate that does not extend far above the substrate, they are tolerant of neighbours swimming up the water column. This makes sense as fish will only establish a territory which they can reasonably defend.
The mistake you made in upgrading from 48x18x15 to 48x18x24 was that the footprint is identical, the O's could not establish any increase in territory. The extra water volume would only help you in maintaining stability.
There must be some "botheration" regarding height of territory but I would agree that it's not as vital as footprint. Obviously the Oscar would not have many fish swimming above it in a tank 24" high! ;-) My guess would be the Oscar would claim the whole tank height within its territory.

You also have to consider our North American friends who have fairly standard tank sizes which are referenced by their volume. For example a 29 is 30x12x18" whereas a 30L is 36x12x17" - note the clear difference in footprint here! The gallons tag is just a label for a specific set of dimensions, it doesn't mean the fishkeeper is focused on volume necessarily.

 

[Cichlidian]

Originally posted by TaffyFish

The mistake you made in upgrading from 48x18x15 to 48x18x24 was that the footprint is identical, the O's could not establish any increase in territory.

Ya i purposely changed the tank to see if it has any difference. Y i chose oscar is, Oscar is partly an open swimmer & partly territorial as far as i've seen. I had the tank w/o any territory (to force it to be an open swimmer). It used the whole stretch of the tank to cruise around and mostly used only the middle area. Why i showed much importance to length is, in my observation, with backgrounds the fish thinks tht the tank is infinitely wide and stay around the front side of the glass most of the time.

You also have to consider our North American friends who have fairly standard tank sizes which are referenced by their volume. For example a 29 is 30x12x18" whereas a 30L is 36x12x17" - note the clear difference in footprint here! The gallons tag is just a label for a specific set of dimensions, it doesn't mean the fishkeeper is focused on volume necessarily.

Ya agreed. But in most of asian countries people never mind bout the dimension at all. All they say is 300L, 500L, 600L tank and just grab em. I've seen a person jail a 7" midas in a 24x24x24 tank.

One more reason for taking this subject is many hobbyists are misled by LFS. I've seen a LFS misleading a hobbyist by compromizing him saying tht a 20 gal long & a 20 gal tall tank is one and the same. THe hobbyist was asking for a 20 gal long , since the LFS had no 20 gal long stock he persuaded him the other way round. These sort of crunches are faced by beginners.

 

[TaffyFish]

many hobbyists are misled by LFS

Amen to that my friend.

 

[DannyJ88]

My O's are in a tank taht 72"(L). And i can tell that they definetly love it. They don't really have a height they swim at and it seems like they couldn't really care what the height was. As long as they can open up kinda and swim the long way they love it. But i also noticed that my oscars aren't really terriotorial as they are kings of the tank. They rule the tank and everything else in it knows that.

 

[Cichlidian]

Ya danny Os are more of open swimmers than territorial creatures.

 

[TaffyFish]

my oscars aren't really terriotorial as they are kings of the tank

I think you mean they tolerate other fish in their territory once dominance has been established, which doesn't mean they are not territorial. Perhaps you'll find the dominance has to be tested and reasserted every once in a while, things don't stay the same forever.

Os are more of open swimmers than territorial creatures

Next time you find a pair of Oscars spawning, stick your hand near the nesting site and observe whether they head for open water. I'll put a small wager that you'll take your hand out pretty quickly! *laughingc

 

[Lotus]

One thing a lot of people don't really consider is the width of a tank. For example, a standard 55g has an internal width of only 12", which can make it harder for larger fish to turn around.

 

[Cichlidian]

Originally posted by TaffyFish
Next time you find a pair of Oscars spawning, stick your hand near the nesting site and observe whether they head for open water. I'll put a small wager that you'll take your hand out pretty quickly! *laughingc

No cichlid will leave its eggs @ swim freely. So i believe they hv to be territorial at spawn. But until tht they'd be cruising around the time most of the time.

 

[TaffyFish]

Maybe we have a different interpretation of territorialty, but having read many, many accounts of problems with tank mates for single Oscars I cannot believe their territorial behaviour is limited to spawning periods even though, as you'd expect with most all cichlids, territorial behaviour is heightened at these times.

A case in point perhaps - if you had a single 8" Oscar in a 75 and you introduced another large cichlid, let's say a 8" JD or 6" GT - how would you expect the Oscar to behave toward the newcomer? With a single fish we can dismiss defence of young as a motive. We can also surely dismiss predation as the motivation for any aggression with these respective sizes of fish.

Depending on the character of the Oscar you might find that it's the JD/GT that kicks off the actual fighting but the initial response of the incumbent cichlid would be pretty telling, right or wrong?

 

[Cichlidian]

Agreed Taffy. I didn't meant to say Os aren't territorial at all. But they're more of open swimmers than say a convict or a texas. For eg., when i hv a broken pot inside a texas or a convict tank they will seldom come out of its territory except for feeding. But Os spend more time cruising around the tank whn compared to other highly territorial guys like GT, Texas, convicts etc.,
I too agree tht when a new fish's added they re much concerned bout territories. But as u pointed out any fish (especially a cichlid) has its own personality and we can't conclude tht if a fish is an oscar it will do ths and things like tht.