To Cichlid or not to Cichlid.. that is the question!

[Iggy]

Alrightly... as some of you know, I am a big Betta fan so far.

I am now interested in expanding my pallet in fish-keeping and I have been considering converting my 50 galllon goldfish tank (moving them to a year-round pond) to either a Malawi/African Cichlid Tank or a Mini-Reef Marine Tank.

The fact is, I have been reading about marine reef tanks, and I am getting the idea it is a very expensive venture.

I have no idea what the specific costs are for a Cichlid setup.. other than the pH variation.

I need to clear-up some (mis)conceptions I may have regarding Cichilds.

1. What kind of fitration is needed for a Cichlid tank? It is basically the same rules as a tropical fish tank?

2. What kind of special substrate do Cichlids need, if any?

3. Live plants... most Cichlid tanks I have seen do not have them.. it it because live plants get eaten or is it because of some other reason.

4, Stocking... what is possible in a 50 gallon (48x12x18) tank size? I am interesting in color variation and character, not specifically just a few big fish.

Any suggested website URL's and/or books would be appreciated.

 

[wayne]

Tropheus my man, are the way to go. You'll get a bunch of other suggestions, but for me they're the only afrcan lakes fish I'd bother with again. I miss my tropheus!
Google search, Tropheus duboisi, or Tropheus in general. Very hard water, alkaline, excellent filtration required, vegetable based diet with some shrimp content. Natural diet is scraping algae covered boulders for the algae and aufwuchs (small shrimp, inverts) in the algae.

 

[Purple]

http://www.macenauer.cz/download/tropheus.JPG

Take your pick

 

[Cichlid-Man]

1. What kind of fitration is needed for a Cichlid tank? It is basically the same rules as a tropical fish tank?

Pretty much

2. What kind of special substrate do Cichlids need, if any?

Doesn't really matter

3. Live plants... most Cichlid tanks I have seen do not have them.. it it because live plants get eaten or is it because of some other reason.

Some get eaten, most of them just get dug up and the plant dies because the roots are not in the substrate.

4, Stocking... what is possible in a 50 gallon (48x12x18) tank size? I am interesting in color variation and character, not specifically just a few big fish.

I really agree with the above. Not many people keep Tropheus around on the board. You can keep a fairly good number of them in a 55gal and have a breeding colony. I am kinda wishing i had done this with my 55gal. They come in all different color variations and as Purple said.....take your pick

http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/tropheus_corner.php

Here is a GREAT site about tropheus.
http://www.tropheus.info/

Again, i highly recommend these fish. The cost of a cichlid tank will be FAR less than a marine tank, and can look just as stunning.

Of course you do have a lot more choices...

 

[JWright]

I often have people assume that my tank is saltwater because of the way it looks (sand and rock, with some very brightly colored fish). They're often very suprised to hear that it's freshwater.

For someone just starting out in the cichlid world, I'd reccomend some of the dwarf mbunas. They're only slightly aggresssive, tolerant of a wide variety of water conditions, and fairly easy to breed (a very rewarding expecience).

The most obvious fish that falls into this catagory is the Yellow Lab (Labidochromis cauruleus)

 

[TaffyFish]

Tropheus is a good call, I had a trio of Duboisi for a few months and they were sensational fish, would love to do a proper Tropheus set up.

I went to the Oceanarium in Poole on the weekend, some really excellent displays but some of the most grossly overfed fish I've ever set eyes on. Highlights were the piranha tank and invert displays. Amongst the invert displays were the most stunningly beautiful fish I have ever seen - they were not labelled at all (blydi aquariums!) but I think they were mandarins - colouration like a Persian carpet! I tell you, I almost bought a nano reef on the way home!!

 

[steve535]

wayne i have to strongly disagree with you.tropheus duboisi are not for first time cichlid keepers. most other tropheus would most likely do ok with the proper research, but duboisi are way to $$ and way to diet sensitive for first timers.i had them for a long time and they are great fish. bloat is way to easy for them to get.

 

[TaffyFish]

First timer? Iggy? LMAO!

 

[Purple]

What I've heard (and read) of Tropheus keeping is some very different experiences. A complete amateur can get away with almost ignoring them and have them thrive, where an experienced keeper with an unlimited budget can loose the whole tank in a week and be utterly helpless to do anything about it. Yes, it's primarily bloat that is the culprit, but the best way I read of dealing with it is early diagnosis and instant correct meds - (sorry Clothahump, I meant Garlic).

But as steve points out, you are dealing with fish that need groups of 6+ at least, and they cost a lot of bucks per fish when you consider that you can lose everything in 7 days flat.

yeah - go for it Iggy

 

[Iggy]

Hmm... ok another question then since I am getting a good variety of answers...

My 50 (its really 50, not wide enough to be a 55) gallon tank might be tied-up a little longer, until I can get my goldfish a new home (year-round ponds are not cheap in Canada!).

I will have a 29gallon tank available fairly soon... would it make sense to setup the 29 first, as a staging area, using younger fish to start off with and grow-out a little before I move them all to the 50 when it gets free? If I did use the 29, it would be a year comitment to that tank, compete with decorations and excellent filtration.

Or do I just wait till the 55 opens up?

I don't want to wait forever, I am pretty excited about setting up a more advanced tank soon. but then again, I am willing to wait if its better for the fish and more efficient for costs.

 

[JWright]

Provided you went with junvenille fish, and upgraded within 6 months or so, I'd say that would be fine.

 

[steve535]

i started out with 6 and lost 4 in 3 days. the came home with bloat from the lfs.i sold mine after 2 years(4 of them).as cool as they are i couldn't be bothered with the diet. from my experience once they get bloat its all over. i had my moorii for 4 years before i sold them off .the only reason i got rid of them was to keep all Malawi fish.

edit: sorry late with this response.

 

[Cichlid-Man]

I think you'd do alright with Tropheus.

And i'd wait for the 55gal, unless you REALLY wanted to start growing out, but once that happens they will start growing and you'd need the 55 pretty quick.

You could always do a nice tang tank. What about a few Clavus (love this fish, on of my favs, i wish i had space for a few) A nice few picks out of the Mixed African tank at the LFS could work out well also. Very colorful. You could always get a good bit of yellow labs and get a darker substrate/rocks/decorations. The yellow would really stand out.

Maybe a nice breeding group of Peacock cichlids? 1m/2-3f?

 

[wayne]

Well for a start I suspect that if he can breed bettas he's no fool. But Steve I saw all the horror stories about Tropheus before I bought some and I found them much easier to deal with than I expected. I bought my duboisi from a local breeder and found them straightforward to keep.
They're active, need space, high strung and need clean water and don't allow for poor water quality. I have no idea why so many people , especially experienced keepers in the US have such problems with bloat. For sure they need a high veg diet, but they AREN'T exclusive herbivores and I fed mine a shrimp/nori mix pretty frequently.
I have pretty soft water so I kept them over aragonite sand with some (no a lot) large boulders. I nver added marine salt as I have heard lots of rumblings that this causes osmotic problems, and then bloat - maybe that's a difference.
Anyway when I moved house I gave my mbuna and tropheus away. I never really liked the mbuna much, but I do miss the Tropheus. maybe the african discus?

 

[TaffyFish]

I think you could go for juvenile duboisi in the 29 - 3 advantages to this.
Firstly, they will be cheaper as juveniles so you could go for more initially than you intend to keep long term; secondly, they display a beautiful spot pattern as juveniles which changes to the white stripe as they grow; thirdly - you can watch for the males and females to make themselves apparent, go for the right mix when you upgrade to the 55 and then sell any unwanted fish (IME they fetch a good price as young adults.)

 

[Cichlid-Man]

Very good ideas and thoughts taffy. I totally agree. A way to combat the chances of losing fish to disease and getting good fish to start, you could always find a breeder. I usually only see a few Trophs at a tim in my LFS....no big shipments. So i would end up ordering from a breeder if i were to get them.

 

[Somonas]

I am quite shocked that nobody has mentioned the importance of buying tropheus in groups of at least 6. If I recall correctly the CRLCA recommends groups of 9.

and if you are buying wild tropheus the CRLCA also recommends not mixing them with Malawis.

 

[Cichlid-Man]

You should keep these fish in groups of at least 6. lol

Well i thought it was kinda....self explainatory (spelling?) I did say "You can keep a fairly good number of them in a 55gal and have a breeding colony."

 

[fis]

Great library on cichlids here, including recommended setups for first-timers here